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Lars Mars
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10/11/2008 10:43:18 PM
Just for fun
Not much action in this video, but it's a fun song:
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Steve April
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10/11/2008 11:50:32 PM
talk about fun, "friday on my mind" (in the cue) sounds good to this day.
sounds like a psychedlic sitar in the break, and beatles-y harmonies...
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Lars Mars
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10/12/2008 7:00:39 AM
You mean this one?
Complete with matching suits and matching Sennheiser 421's..
Interesting, as I was just thinking of trying one of ours as a vocal mic
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Hugh Hamilton
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10/12/2008 7:07:41 AM
I LOVE "Bottle of Wine" - funny...wow, you have a 421? I'm jealous...
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kurtkurtley
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10/12/2008 7:14:48 AM
---- Updated 10/12/2008 7:26:02 AM
We're thinking of opening a barbershop and using the 421's for that "little bit off the sides" request.
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Lars Mars
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10/12/2008 7:22:24 AM
Actually, we have 4 421's.
We bought them on eBay and as their US service center is local, we had them completely serviced.
Probably my favorite Neil Young song ever:
I hope this video was made in the UK..
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Kevin White
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10/12/2008 7:28:30 AM
The 421 is a standard vocal broadcast mic. You'll find them all over in radio stations as the booth mic.
I've got a couple myself and have used the at various times for a singing mic.
Watch the proximity effect.
K-
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Hugh Hamilton
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10/12/2008 7:28:46 AM
I am jealous about your 4 mics...but I'll see yer 421s and raise you a Coles 4038 (lol)...my latest (and last for a long while) mic acquisition...a.k.a. "Ringo's Overhead" to a guy like me...
haha - yes, the 421 does have a bit of an electric razor styling to it...
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kurtkurtley
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10/12/2008 7:29:03 AM
Hoisch,
There's a great clip of the Zombies doing "She's Not There" out on the tube. I would have posted it except I'm link impaired and Jeff won't show me how. It would fit in this thread nicely.
Now off to bed for us early risers.
TKO
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Lars Mars
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10/12/2008 7:34:39 AM
Watch the proximity effect.
Yes Kevin, the boys get nervous whenever I'm in the proximity of any mic...
and even more nervous when I decide to play engineer.
Glenn
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Kevin White
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10/12/2008 7:38:02 AM
lol ...
Being a dynamic, the 421 has a deep proximity bass boost.
While this is great for a male's speaking voice over radio ... lending a rich low texture to the tone ...
If a singer gets a bit too close to it during a recording session?
Not so pleasant ...
There will be mud.
:^D
K-
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Lars Mars
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10/12/2008 7:38:50 AM
but I'll see yer 421s and raise you a Coles 4038
Hugh, I know better than to play Gear Poker with you...
If you want a sucker to join your Gear Lust game, you'll have to contact Kurt (who swore off buying any more guitars last year only to cave a coupla months later)
Glenn
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Hugh Hamilton
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10/12/2008 7:40:46 AM
---- Updated 10/12/2008 7:44:58 AM
hahahahaha - seriously, I'd love some 421s...and I'm violating the terms of my parole by discussing gear, I know it...hahahaha...
Umm...so what did he buy?
tee-hee
P.S. While acknowledging Kevin's accuracy I must say I've noticed a fair number of old video clips showing 421s deployed as vocal mics. Not a huge number...but more than a few. Don't have any examples other than the one above. I'll also point out that the 421 has a bass rolloff switch that could be used in the situation and would seem likely to reduce (if not eliminate) any vocal mud...I record myself with an AKG C414 and I almost always have the bass rolloff switch set to 150 hz on everything I record with it, but I'm especially careful to be sure it's on for vocal for the same reason.
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Lars Mars
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10/12/2008 8:00:18 AM
Umm...so what did he buy?
This one was a vintage Telecaster that had been completely restored I think... it's so hard to keep track. He'd chime in, but he's in Shanghai and went nitey nite.
For Kurt:
No matching mics in this one... in fact, no mics at all. Smooth how the director cut to the drummer during the keyboard solo, huh?
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Lars Mars
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10/12/2008 8:02:04 AM
If only I had a dime for every time I've heard that about my singing...
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Hugh Hamilton
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10/12/2008 8:02:55 AM
---- Updated 10/12/2008 8:05:31 AM
When I was a teen I was in a band with a couple of 30 year olds...we covered that tune and others of its ilk...I played bass...dig that tune...
(I'm trying not to mention that sweet SG...)
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Lars Mars
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10/12/2008 8:19:07 AM
(I'm trying not to mention that sweet SG...)
Your self-restraint has been noted by your parole officer Hugh and won't count against you... but you're dancing on the precipice.
Glenn
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kurtkurtley
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10/12/2008 4:44:59 PM
Okay, Hugh, I'm up and getting ready for work.
On this Gear Lust Topic, it's not nearly as bad as Glenn makes it out.
I've got -
1973 Rickenbacker model 480 (6 string with the 4001 body shape, gorgeous)
A custom made Tele bodied electric 12 string (love it)
1979 Guild nt512 12 string
1991 Ovation Collectors 6 string
1980 Kramer aluminum neck (tuning fork) bass
And I was good with that for quite a while, but then this guy I worked with had this sweet Telecaster Nashville Deluxe he was selling...and an Epiphone dot deluxe.
Well, I kept the tele and gave the Epi to my nephew....
But really, now, I have plenty of guitars, really, I'm not kidding....Hey, I can quit anytime I want! Don't give me that LOOK!! I MEAN IT!!!!
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Hugh Hamilton
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10/12/2008 4:53:02 PM
---- Updated 10/12/2008 4:54:50 PM
You can quit anytime? PROVE IT...hehe...and send a couple to me for "safe keeping"...bwahahahahahaha...
and by the way...what is UP with your EXOTIC location?
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Kevin White
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10/12/2008 5:32:53 PM
I used to sell both Ovation and Kramer guitars ... as I was a rep for both companies in the 80's.
I own only an Ovation of the two.
I like Kramer ... but own an off brand from one company that made guitars for them.
Kev-
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kurtkurtley
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10/13/2008 12:40:04 AM
Kev,
The Tuning Fork bass is the only Kramer I've ever played....for recording, it's incredible. You actually have to dampen the strings to stop the sustain on that thing. One of my first good guitars was a 1968-ish Ovation Josh White...always loved that guitar. PLus, I worked for Pratt & Read Co. in the early 70's when they made spruce tops for Mr. Kaman. The '91 Collectors was a natural, as it's a beautiful, simple single cutaway design AND it's the 25th anniversary edition.
Hugh,
No, really I CAN STOP!!! The exotic locale has to do with the fact that I've been a migrant worker most of my (so-called) adult life. The company I work for is helping the Chinese gov't build power plants. It's a fairly lucrative gig, it's an adventure I might not get another shot at, and I dig the culture. It does, however, put a bit of a damper on my Lars Mars quality time. But ya gotta eat, and ya gotta pay the bills. So I live in Shanghai, do a little solo recording, and since I just bought a traditional Chinese instrument called a Yangqin, you can be safe in assuming it will show up in a song sometime in the next year.
Hoisch,
If Jeff taught you how to do links, how come I can see them?
That's all from This Side of the World.
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Hugh Hamilton
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10/13/2008 6:56:40 AM
Never heard of a yangqin but the link goes to the wikipedia page for it...cool! Looks fun!
Power plant work - yowza, sounds serious...rock on!
H
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kurtkurtley
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10/13/2008 9:12:54 AM
Thanks, Hugh....the Yangqin is really cool, it sounds soooo Chinese...I'm sure you know of my Ison cover of "Girl on the Train", I know that you've been as far north as Chester (my home town as well as Glenn and our other lifer Ron, our drummer). Perhaps when I get back to the good ol' US of A we can coax you north again to join us at Recording Dwarf Studios for a session. We're not real sophisticated, but we have a lot of fun....now, how to get Ison across the pond at the same time...hmmmm....I might have enough frequent flyer miles for that one!
Whaddya think....scary or what! Larree can buy his own damn ticket from LA!
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Hugh Hamilton
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10/13/2008 10:05:49 AM
Perhaps Huge shall join the Dwarf team for a session sometime (lol), I appreciate the offer...maybe you could come install a power plant in my home, I'm fearful of oil prices and "the grid" these days...geez, if I knew of your Ison cover I forgot, I'll have a poke around and see what I can find...if I had a yangqin I think my first song would be called "Yangqin Yer Chain"...lol...rock on!
H
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Hugh Hamilton
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10/13/2008 10:08:47 AM
Ah... Found it... Sounds like you had fun...I enjoyed covering one too, so I can dig it...
Ciao!
H
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Pulse Eternal
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10/13/2008 11:02:14 AM
Oooooh, I just found this thread and spotted some microphone discussion!!
Hugo, one day we're going to have to catch up in person and combine our mic collections for some kick-ass collaborations :-)
421's are awesome as live mics on toms. That proximity effect really brings out some punch and warmth when used as close tom mics.
Hugo, if you have a small cardioid, try mounting it right on top of your 414 in line with the capsule and pointing out to the side (I'll take a photo and post it here), put your 414 in figure 8 with no bass roll-off and use the pair as a mid / side setup. This sounds sublime on drum overheads, acoustic piano's and as a stereo room mic.
I use that configuration with my 414 and 451E and it works extremely well.
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Pulse Eternal
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10/13/2008 11:27:44 AM
A picture tells a thousand words. Here you go Hugo......
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Hugh Hamilton
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10/13/2008 11:28:46 AM
---- Updated 10/13/2008 11:35:05 AM
Thanks, Titania...I tried a mid-side recording of "L.O.V.E." when Mr. Aven visited - not on drums, but on us as a live duet with instruments and vocals - we did overdub the sax solo, but all the other sounds were a live take with both of us into the stereo mic setup...used the Coles 4038 and the 414 on cardioid...probably because of the room it came out a bit weird sounding...I'm loving the Coles as a drum overhead mic...yes, I could dig having some 421s, just use SM57s/58s when close mic'ing toms at present (though I haven't recorded drums in months now...studio is kinda shut down at the moment...but that's another story!)...once I get "back in the swing" I will continue with the experiments, and mid/side is on the "to-do" list...
Raaaaaaaaaaaaawk!
H
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Pulse Eternal
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10/13/2008 11:40:56 AM
I'd LOVE to have a play around with your 4038. Ribbons have such a sweet and open sound and the 4038 is renowned and respected for that. Cool stuff.
I found M/S can sound a little weird when using the rolloff switches or differing EQ on either mic due to the phase response of said filter or EQ. If you use EQ for rolloff, make sure you apply the same EQ to both mics to maintain the phase response.
Also, M/S can get a little weird right behind the mic and very close up, again due to off axis phase anomalies.
I've generally had the best results when the sources are at least a few inches from the mics.
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Pulse Eternal
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10/13/2008 11:51:22 AM
Hmmm... I got a similar sound to what you have there when I accidentally set my 414 to cardioid instead of figure 8. I also find M/S is critical of the positioning of the two mics and their alignment. Sometimes the best stereo effect is not necessarily obtained with the mid mic directly over the side mic, although with the 414 / 451 combo, the setup in my pic gives me the best results.
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Hugh Hamilton
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10/13/2008 12:56:58 PM
I agree that EQ probably had to do with it in my case...also, the 4038 is pretty new to me and I'm reasonably sure the two sides of the mic have some differing characteristics as well...I probably had the bass rolled off on the 414, which could have resulted in that "weirdness" - was just a quick experiment...more to follow...
I also got a pair of inexpensive ribbons, which in some quick tests sounded good - had found an online vendor (forgotten) selling Apex 205 mics dirtcheap. All in all I think I'm pretty well set though I still...crave...more...lol...
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Lars Mars
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10/13/2008 1:19:37 PM
From Titania's video logs:
The two little white drums to the right are percussion triggers built from plumbing parts, self adhesive felt and a mouse mat.
I think I'm in love...
Glenn
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Kevin White
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10/13/2008 7:35:35 PM
This IS my kind of discussion, but I'm whupped tonight. 5 hours of driving followed by 6 hours of work will do that.
I'll be back.
Kev-
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Pulse Eternal
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10/14/2008 4:20:55 AM
---- Updated 10/14/2008 4:22:42 AM
Hugo,
How do you find the Apex ribbons compared to your condensers? Sometimes cheaper mics can sound surprisingly good. I would assume they are no match for your 4038 but still handy to have around.
LOL @ craving more! I can relate to your G.A.S.!!
LOL Glenn. Thanks for your compliments! =^.^=
Yikes Kev! 5 Hours of driving THEN 6 hours of work?!!! You must've been exhausted!
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Hugh Hamilton
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10/14/2008 6:44:54 AM
---- Updated 10/14/2008 6:46:17 AM
Have only ever used the Apex ribbons in quick quick drum tracking as a test and I liked them. Having previously tried a Coles the Apex pair did not assuage my lust and I ultimately caved in...the studio is disassembled and no recording other than my quick acoustic demos these days (i.e. recent uke stuff). Generally speaking I like the way the ribbons soften the high end, particularly on cymbals, and they seem to my ear to be nicely responsive to the overall nuances of percussive elements in particular...
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kurtkurtley
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10/14/2008 9:22:25 AM
Hugh, SP,
I admittedly suffer from SGLS (Severe Gear Lust Syndrome) but have found (I think) comfort in the world of condensers. As a relatively inexpensive solution to drum/cymbal overheads, we bought a mattched pari of EV RE-100's...they look a lot like the 414s and have the most neutral sound of any condensers I've used. Glenn does his vocal punishing thru a Rode, I myself like to dish out the vocal pain thru a CAD Equitek E-200, a large, black beast that could easily be mistaken for a marital aid. I've never had the opportunity to try a ribbon, read about them, sounds great, but I have to consider a major hardware revamp to go to that range.
BTW I think the 421's are as good on toms as anything we've ever used.
So it looks like "Just for Fun has morphed into SGLS - Part X. However, as a nifty tie-up/seque -
Might cut down on other needed expenditures (like more instruments) ; >)
Kurt
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Hugh Hamilton
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10/14/2008 10:39:47 AM
Never heard of the EV RE-100, can't find one but saw a pic of an RE-1000 - typo?
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Lars Mars
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10/14/2008 10:59:05 AM
---- Updated 10/14/2008 11:02:39 AM
You are correct sir. It is indeed a typo (unless we have an older version). But this looks like them:
EV RE1000
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kurtkurtley
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10/14/2008 6:49:59 PM
Guys,
Don't think of it so much as a typo, think of it more as an effort to conserve our rapidly depleting sources of zeros in the USA. Wall St. and Washington really need our zeros. Careless squandering of endangered digits should be guarded against.....but yes, they are RE-one thousand's.
Sorry for the oversight.
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Hugh Hamilton
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10/15/2008 6:16:36 AM
Kurt, you trying to save the National Debt Clock from obsolescence again?
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