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Bob Elliott
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2/11/2008 11:51:15 AM
There Are Times When I'm Glad to Be a Nobody in the Music Business
Like when I watch a few minutes of the Grammies.
There's something I just hate about hype applied to a thing that doesn't deserve it. Start with the Foo Fighter's tune they did. What was that they were bashing out there? Sounded like they'd stolen from Sesame Street's "One of These Things is Not Like the Other," and the Who's "Who Are You," and come up with something possessing much less melody than either. And yet, it's a big moment, so they gotta bash those guitars harder and harder and bang the drums and get the hair all in the face just to prove how totally wild the song is...
yeah, like they gotta prove it, because the melody itself isn't carrying any of the weight for them at all...zero, so all that's left is this hyped out performance which just seems embarassing...oh yeah, also throw a symphony on top of that conducted by John Paul Jones...imagine all the time and energy into that number all in support of such a nonsong...but then they win album of the year...
It all seems so phony.
Or Alicia Keyes whom everyone would like to believe has something real and soulful going on as she slips more and more into just another Beyonce, yet far more awkward, belting all this energy into a tune with really no tune...again a lot of heacy lifting because the song won't do any of the work for her, so she has to shout and shout...
Or Kenye with his light up suit to make it all special when the song was pretty ho hum rap distingushuied only by some cool voice/synth sound...
But the height of dumd overhype that I may have ever seen in my life was the country guy singing about wanting to search a girl for tics while in the back they have neon light pictures of tics in multicolor...
holy shit, if that's what it takes, I'd rather be nobody and just make music.
Same feeling as when I walk through the record store and see all the goofy ass poses people do for album covers...like everyone is some kind of a comic book hero...
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Jeff Allen Myers
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2/11/2008 12:06:21 PM
Yea I watched the whole three plus hours, I was not impressed.
I will preface the following comment with with the fact I do not like his music...Period. Kanye West is an egomaniac whose persona is not supported by his music. His performance? was that singing? The music was manufactured drivel. When he has not won in the past, he dissed the winners. When he wins, he acts like the second coming. I am very sad his Mom passed away, but a little humility is warranted, and please take off those ridiculous glasses!
I ave heard very food Hip Hop/Rap...I don't get Kanye, sorry....
I think Feist showed some talent.....Alicia, she is beautiful and talented, but I agree she needs to concentrate on the music and leave the Pop star B.S. behind.
I felt sorry for Jerry Lee Lewis, he is clearly too old to pull it off....
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Gary Stockton
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2/11/2008 12:10:19 PM
I must agree with you Bob. I couldn't understand all of the hoopla over The Prentender. They vamped it with this "my grammy moment" contest, ok cool.. But the girl who won had to take a seat in the orchestra. If she won, then she really should have had a spot on the main stage with them, she looked like she could blow away every one of her fellow violinists anyhow. Couldn't the Foo's share the stage and give her a real grammy moment?
As for Kanye West. Well, what can I say about a guy who is a sore loser when he doesn't get a grammy, then when he does get one, proceeds to give a really rude arrogant acceptance speech. I've never really liked his music, can't understand why someone like him, with such poor attitude could be so successful in the business.
The only highlight of this year's Grammy's for me other than Fergie's solo was seeing Amy Winehouse perform sober. It was actually quite moving to see an artist with some huge problems overcome, step on stage, get real and deliver something awesome. For Amy..
Respect.
And she took home 5 Grammy's.
Much of the music seemed similar, hip hip/pop beat driven static. Maybe I'm getting old. Just seems with all of the great things happening on the Internet with Indie artists, surely we would start to see the talent pool fill up a little more when it comes to recognize Grammy award level talent.
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Hugh Hamilton
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2/11/2008 12:13:02 PM
I never watch that stuff. Be true to yourself and you'll be just fine...you've got the idea...
:)
H
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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2/11/2008 12:21:45 PM
------I heard on our radio news that our boys "the Flight of the Conchords" won a comedy Grammy?
do you know---- they have a (neglected) site here on IAC?
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srm
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2/11/2008 12:42:48 PM
I haven't watched the Grammies since the mid '70's. I WAS pleased to see Herbie Hancock took the Best Album, though.
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srm
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2/11/2008 1:15:48 PM
I didn't see it. One can only hope it was Karen Briggs- she's amazing!
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satch
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2/11/2008 1:19:11 PM
It's just another industry pat-on-the-back...
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srm
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2/11/2008 1:33:36 PM
My mistake, sorry. I've not heard of her, or heard her. I understand that she's 'played' with Steve Vai, though.
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The CODE
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2/11/2008 2:14:31 PM
All in All - sounds like a real shitstorm!!!!
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Bob Elliott
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2/11/2008 2:54:29 PM
Well, I only caught those few acts. The "search you for tics" thing was the lowest point. I'd have loved to see Prince. I didn't see the Rehab girl. She'd probably deliver.
The Foo Fighters have done some decent songs, all the more reason why last night's song was particularly dumb. Dave Grohl oughta know when he's ripping from Sesame Street and the Who just to make something worse than both.
But it isn't just the grammies. It's the whole bloated way of trying to get across a song or an album that isn't very good by oversinging, over playing, over dancing, over dressing, over bragging...
I guess the oversinging really bugs me the most...
and it's all because the songs themselves won't carry any weight.
But hype is a part of the business, usually.
See how much better it is to be a nobody? Don't you feel lucky now?
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Steve Ison
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2/11/2008 2:59:07 PM
"It's just another industry pat-on-the-back..."
Yeh,that about sums it up for me Satch..
I never watched it Bob, but from seeing 'The B.R.I.T.S' -our own version a few times,i can well picture it...
You can't watch these kinda things as an idealist and not get angry..
The BRITS gave a 'lifetime acheivement' award to Duran Duran a couple of years ago .A pretty average pop band in their 80s heyday-and thats being generous..
You can just IMAGINE all the behind-the-scenes wheelin' n'dealing,influencing n money changin' that goes on for big companies to position their artists for these kind of things, that give massive exposure and generate such huge buisness.
Then on top of that you've gotta put up with the unbearable smugness n all round back-slapping, as if we're supposed to cheer along n be grateful for such mediocrity.
For me,these kind of things symbolise the utter meaninglessness of what pop music's become..Its so depressing..
Just like X Factor/American Idol,all the vitality,magic,strangeness,charisma,righteous anger,purpose and intelligence has been sucked out of the music- and we're just left with this well-rehearsed,forgettable,dull professionalism-who's sole reason for existence is to make $$$s
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Vincenzo Pandolfi
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2/11/2008 10:21:29 PM
I look at it like this:
No one in the world, except for a few loyal customers has ever heard of the little shop on the corner that makes wonderful fresh and healthy burgers, but almost everyboy in the world has heard of the big chain franchises.....It is a huge, marketing exercise. However, some artists do have a lot of talent nevertheless.
If you ever want to watch and hear some of the worst live music on a massive scale, watch the Eurosong festival. Your singing or songwriting ability appears to be far less important than your acrobatic one.
Vincenzo
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No Rhythm
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2/12/2008 1:12:08 AM
Thank you all, I'm glad I missed it now.
Hey silverwood I saw Flight of the concordes a few years ago, talented guys, talk about laugh, Glad to see they're getting some deserved recognition
Cheers Mark
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Carl Schonbeck
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2/12/2008 4:44:01 AM
There are times I'm happy to be stuck in Milanese musical exile (no Grammys on the Italtube though San Remo is soon to rear its hideous head once more). "Depressing"? Yeeeeep! There are always going to be people happy to rent a tux and make inane speeches I guess....of course it's all about bizness but if Herbie Hancock winning best platter convinces a few young turks to go and buy a copy of ESP or The HeadHunter maybe it was time well-spent. Gamey Whinehouse reminds me of my first girlfri(party no)end, scarey....even so it was nice to see her rocking sober.
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Two Silo Complex
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2/12/2008 8:01:19 AM
What we have to consider is that the industry knows that the big labels are failing. The industry also knows that the general public follows flashing lights and celebrities like lemmings off a cliff. So this is an attempt at a parade and we are all supposed to follow along blindly. Be glad that you see through the transparent attempt to make something out of nothing. It is the death throws of a dying beast that refuses to lay at rest. I envision a future where there is are Grammie awards. There will be a new award show one that actually recognizes talent not popularity.
TSC
Ken
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Verity
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2/12/2008 8:44:24 AM
Well I'm glad I missed that then............had more fun reading this thread - much more talent I suspect - Vee
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RedRobin
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2/12/2008 9:02:14 AM
Some of you guys don't want to get so worked up about it. If it's crap, don't watch it - I didn't and I'm not fussed how good or bad it was.
I wonder though what some of your responses would be if you got invited - Either as a guest or to perform - How many would stand by their loudly declared 'principles' and refuse?
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The CODE
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2/12/2008 10:28:29 AM
Good Point Red Robin - I suppose if we got the chance we would all have a go!??
Mind you - when you tell the producers you insist on playing 'live' how do you think they would react??? Didn't see the show so don't know if these guy's were playing 'live' or not!!!???
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Helmut Licht
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2/12/2008 12:18:50 PM
Hello Bob - what is happening to you is that you are beginning to see things for what they really are. If it's man made, it is subject to man's values, motives, agendas and it can be man destroyed. If it's from within, it may never make the man made arena, but it's real and lasting. Fame? Who from 10 years ago it up there now? Man made them and man made them disappear :) The cycle is endless and the process is selfish. There is a hole in the bottom of the barrel through which the water escapes as quickly as the hose puts it in.
Have a happy life.
Helmut
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Gary Stockton
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2/12/2008 12:21:54 PM
If invited, I would go of course. The format didn't bother me, just the lack of talent compared to decades ago. It could be a reflection of what's getting airplay, and that's unfair when there is so much more great music to be heard.
I think it's important though to recognize achievement and excellence in music, and lastly to point out a couple of our fellow IAC artists, Tony Lowe and Alison Fleming were nominated two years in a row for a Grammy for their work.
Would I like to be nominated for a Grammy, you bet I would!
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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2/12/2008 12:41:39 PM
Herbie is of course ---a genius---I bought my first Herbie vinyl LP in the '70s---
good point Laree!
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Gary Stockton
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2/12/2008 3:02:45 PM
Herbie is cool, although I was amazed that this album only sold 56,000 units so far. Probably will sell a great many more now.
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Bob Elliott
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2/13/2008 9:50:34 AM
Red Robin says,"Some of you guys don't want to get so worked up about it. If it's crap, don't watch it - I didn't and I'm not fussed how good or bad it was.
I wonder though what some of your responses would be if you got invited - Either as a guest or to perform - How many would stand by their loudly declared 'principles' and refuse?"
First, there is nothing wrong with watching to see what goes on in the world of big music biz, and there is nothing wrong with thinking it was weak or in saying it's weak. The acts I caught were devoid of melody and heavy on shouting and jumping to get the song over because the songs did none of the work for them. To me that's an interesting thing to consider for songwriters. Try to get your song to do some work.
Second, I'd gladly go on the grammies (which they'll never ask), but if I got there, one principle I wouldn't compromise is the one I'm harping on here: I'd try to come with an actual song. I haven't heard the Foo Fighter's album that one them best rock album, but I did hear the tune they played from it, and it was terrible. I'd gladly perform pretty much anything off my latest album against that song, and I wouldn't even need John Paul Jones to lead an orchestra to make my song seem worthier.
Dave Grohl was part of a band that had at heart a songwriter with a strong sense of melody. Nirvana would smash and jump, too, but at the heart of it the power was coming from a melody that Cobain could have come out and played on an acoustic guitar and it still would have slayed 'em.
Had Grohl played that tune of his stripped of the artifice it would have been as dull as watching paint dry.
I just think artifice in music makes it pretty weak, and that melody is a skill beyond most current songwriters, pro and indie alike.
This is a forum for discussing music. It seems an appropriate comment. Maybe as we hash these things out we begin to stretch ourselves more where it really counts in a lasting way: songwriting.
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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2/13/2008 12:06:48 PM
-------I agree with this idea that "melody" is being drummed out of popular music
At the most recent festival here last week--10,000 people ---big stadium P.A.------------ all you could really hear was the sub base and keys---the singers had to scream to be heard!
-----and most punters were perfectly ( drunkenly happy)!!!!!!!!
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Jeff Allen Myers
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2/13/2008 2:51:07 PM
Dave Grohl is a very talented Musician/Writer. The Foo fighters have some excellent, melodic music. The one played at the Grammies is not there best. I was at a charity Concert in which Grohl played and sanf "EVERLONG" on only the acoustic guitar. It stood on its own very well, and the song is melodic. I love Daves attitude as well, he seems like one of the guys.
Amy Winehouse? I found myself being entertained...mostly by her presence and demeanor. Her style seems a mix of R &B and Cabaret. Her voice reminds me of Fiona Apple. We shall see if she has staying power.
As musicians/writers it's great to discuss and critique artists that reached a pinnacle. We are listeners as well, and I think we have a great perspective to present because we are fellow artists, writers, and musicians... just on a smaller scale. As long as the comments are not based on jealousy or sour grapes, I think a thread like this is relevent. I find the Grammy's entertaining, and I have a curiousity of current trends. Sometimes I am pleasantly surprised, others I just shake my head. I think it has always been that way....
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fly on the wall
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2/14/2008 12:12:23 AM
The Grammys are even more obsolete than My Space.
The ratings just came back, 4 people watched and 3 of them are on this thread.
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Andy Broad
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2/14/2008 3:35:01 AM
I'm not a big fan of awards ceremonies, in fact as entertainment I hate them, but I'm sure I would go along if invited to perform! I doesn't make me stop wanting to be a somebody though, or glad that I haven't made it yet, (within that definition of making it. My ersonal definition is make my livinf from the music of my choice, which I do, just ...).
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