Does playing clubs for free ruin for everyone else? by HunkaFunk on The Pipeline at IndieMusicPeople

Does playing clubs for free ruin for everyone else?
There's a big debate boiling over on CraigsList in the Seattle area, and that is;
Are the tons of bands that are willing to play for free (for promotional purposes), ruining it for bands to get paying gigs? The live music scene in Seattle is dismal, at best. Open mics, bands stacked four deep to play for free at so called "Audition nights", and people even paying to play, are the norm. The casinos pay well, but they are almost impossible for an unkown band to play at. I've always been a believer in "you get what you pay for".
Now bars are offering food, drinks, and the opportunity to sell your cds as compensation for dragging out your equipment and playing in front of a real audience. I think this new trend is despicable, and indicitive of indifference by the club owners towards musicians in general. The musicians union is almost nonexistent, and impotent at best. I have been getting paid to play for 30+ years, but have never made a living at it. I don't mind doing covers, and doing them well rehearsed, if I get paid, but now those gigs are strictly casino gigs, and "A" room bars. Fortunately, I have been rehearsing with a great funk coverband, and we are starting to get a few gigs, doing sequenced covers, but they are hard to find. Unless musicians around here get some balls, and say NO to playing for free, our paid gigging days are over.

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Jeff Allen Myers

7/9/2009 10:35:11 PM

This is nothing new, it has been this way since the 80's in LA. If you wanted to play original material you had to "Pay to Play" Some venues would allow you to sell tickets to recoup your money. There is a lack of live venues, and a listening public that really does not care...unless you are in the "Young" scene...which sadly most of us are not, and their is an expiration date for those that are.

Coffeehouses are full of original music, but they do not pay a dime. If I start playing live again, I fully expect to do it for free.

I played in a Bar cover band that got paid in the nineties, but even then it was a struggle to find paying venues.

Today you have to love plying music, for Joy...not cash. It's sad, but it is a fact that will not change. Especially now with the deluge of bands and musicians in the age of Home recording.

The Casinos will pay, but those are for the top notch, polished "cover" bands. Even then, I don't think the pay is that good because of supply and demand. There are more bands then venues.... it's pure economics.

Good Luck

Jeff

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The CODE

7/9/2009 11:49:56 PM ---- Updated 7/9/2009 11:52:05 PM

YES! Been saying this for over a year!

We don't do this for the Money

ROCK ON>>>

Edit: Monet???

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HunkaFunk

7/10/2009 12:25:25 AM

I certainly am not involved in music for the money. However, once you've been paid, it's hard to swallow this latest trend. If I never get another cent for playing in front of people, it doesn't mean that I'm going to quit, it just means that I will have to weigh out the pros and cons of doing the gig. It's that whole "starving artist" thing that I'm not buying. things have just changed, that's all. An artist that has kept up, and improved their chops, has pro gear, and can win an audience, deserves to get paid, no? The younger cats are used to paying to play, and pack into clubs like sardines at that pie in the sky idea of "making it". Making what? money for the freaking bar that's what.
They still mark up drinks (like they have for the 30+ years I've been playing), still advertise "Live Music", and are still hosing bands, only now they have thousands of eager "rockstars" to choose from (and they all sound the same to me). I know the reality, it doesn't mean I have to like it!
Tf

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Andy Broad

7/10/2009 12:43:27 AM

pay to play is wrong, join the union and fight it!

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7/10/2009 5:36:50 AM

Same thing as the culture of allowing free downloads. Did all those years of free music ruin it for those indies who dared to think they could sell theirs ?

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never never band

7/10/2009 5:52:45 AM

Wherever you live, Demand scale and throw tomatoes at anyone who undercuts.

we've had to compromise here but the standard bar scene is $75 a man.
I ply solo gigs for seminars here and I charge $150 for 3 sets of about 40 mins each.

At the bars they're starting to say $400 is top pay for weekends and $250 for weekdays, so you have to decide how thats gonna go, if you have 5 piece, it's tough, if you have a good trio you can do ok.

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Jeff Allen Myers

7/10/2009 8:36:41 AM

Sure, they may pay $400.00.... ( It's what I got in the nineties) But good luck finding a place to play...and if you do, there will be about ten other bands trying to get the gig as well.

The Live music scene absolutely sucks....

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SILVERWOODSTUDIO

7/11/2009 3:08:19 AM

We only do freebies for good causes in the community and usually get something
(wine, vouchers, or free drinks ) in return

Never ever would play a bar or club without haggling over the fee----

but the support band who toured here (NZ) with the Rolling Stones paid for the privilidge---and I can't even remember their name---- lol

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Conversation Suicide

7/11/2009 3:18:35 AM

Like Rob, we'll do a free gig for a good 'cause. Got a cool one comin' up for underpriveledged/disability status individuals comin' up.
But this PAY to PLAY is just Shitty.... However, it's true, s'been goin' on for YEARS.... A lot of Tucson Bands have payed the Whiskey A Go Go in LA area, to play....for example...just to get a FOOT in the door as it were....

In this economy, wages for ORIGINAL music are NOT a priority for ANY of the clubs that I've heard of.

SO-- do a Musician's REVOLT -- Throw bitchin' Haus parties with LIVE Original ROCK/PUNK/FUNK/Hip-HOP/Blues & Country and Screamo/HARDCORE/METAL music, ya know?

-my two pence

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Chris Hance

7/11/2009 7:40:07 AM

Bands are ten a penny and the venues know it, the world is so full of cheese, and plastic crap,
Peeps will suck it up because its shiny, even if too much gives constipation theres a constant supply of new peeps to sell the cheese to,
Smoking in bars banned, well?
A overhead surviellence of festivals, spots kids skinnin up.
Who wants to gig in that kind of atmosphere?
Square venues, square crowds,
kid bands playin for free is normal here,

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Rose Reece-Morgan

7/11/2009 7:51:40 AM

i only do freebees for charity that is a good thing ,,,, but i have my own worth and self esteem to think of, one should get payed as you are worthy of it it is your art and your right to get payed . Places will always take peole that will play for free . thats the nature of the beast . No one likes paying so if they can get it for
free they will.
I am in New Zealand and it is the same here in Auckland.
thats just my thoughts
regards Rose Reece-Morgan

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Paul groover

7/11/2009 12:33:20 PM

My golden rule is if i don,t get paid i don,t play. Although i do agree with data thieves about the scene here in Scotland it,s like walking into a concentration camp going to any venue,s now so why bother. Also who want,s to pay 3 pounds for a pint of lager that,s 96% water???. Bars have become revenue collectors for our corrupt government that,s a good enough reason for me to stay away. When you look in the bars now it seems loads of people are doing the same. It,s indicative of the live scene because no-one is going out and the bars can,t pay the bands because there being hamstrung by the government and there health and safety fascism. I can,t see it getting better if Tory Boy and his Eton cronies get in it will be a continuation of the same. People up here came up with alternative they rented and old commercial unit and turned it into somewhere where you can do your own thing. It,s called the shed

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Duane Flock

7/11/2009 3:29:12 PM

I had commented on this same subject not too long ago about ASCAP and BMI charging bar owners for cover fees. Also the fact that if you're good enough, you can charge at the door and make your money there. You bring your own thirsty following and everyone is happy.

Playing for free is wrong. I work hard to give a great show. I practiced and played since I was 12 (40yrs). I'm not giving up my time for free unless it's for a good cause.

Which reminds me,........the coverband I'm in (Diversion) is opening for Country Joe McDonald for the Cancer Walk for Life benefit in Concord Calif. this afternoon. Should be pretty interesting! Gimme an F........ Gimme a U.......

Hahahahahaha

D.

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The Man With No Band

7/11/2009 8:32:12 PM

You all should consider leaving the bright lights behind ... GET OUT OF THE CITY !!!
The world is full of small town venues ... no "pay to play" there ... yeah it may cost you some traveling time and some gas money, but the pay is often $200.00 to $300.00 a night ... and you are generally appreciated more and often asked to return .... Not only the small bars but also local festivals and stuff ... you could play 365 days a year if you wanted and NEVER run out of places to play ... and NEVER "pay to play" ....
and the air is better and the stars are brighter away from the city .....

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Tony Vani and Debbie Hoskin

7/12/2009 12:13:09 AM

We only do free gigs when it's a charity fundraiser for a cause we are supporting. Playing for free just makes it bad for everyone, ruining the business; musicians just keep undercutting each other and the only ones who benefit are the slimey club owners. Busking on the street pays gets more respect then lowering yourself to play for free in a club.

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Andy Broad

7/12/2009 2:00:01 AM

Sam, having just done two out of town gigs in a row, I heartlity agree with you.

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SILVERWOODSTUDIO

7/12/2009 11:12:58 PM

Heh---most of my fave peeps on one blog!!

Duane I had that album back in the day---My dear Mum (Mom) gave it to me ---!!

She was dumbfounded when I played that----- Give us a-------LOL!!!!!

Obviously she hadn't had a listen b4---

Sam ---yep spot on

Hi Debs Andy Larree

Just thought i should mention DJs-----we have lost 2 gigs recently to out of town DJs undercutting us ---even allowing for their transport---and they just sit and play records or CDS

Fack Feck Fock

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Tony Vani and Debbie Hoskin

7/13/2009 1:58:47 AM

Hey Rob!! Yes "DJ's" are a sore spot around this town. Thank goodness they are not as popular as they use to be.

Speaking of Freebees, our band did a fun freebee funraiser today, raising money for our local foodbank. It was a huge Woodstock reunion. We did Jefferson airplane's "White Rabbit" and "Somebody to love." It was a blast from the past. There were probably at least 3 thousand people there to support the gig.

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eddie joe clark

7/13/2009 4:59:03 AM

My name is eddie joe clark. I have been a musician for 30 plus years.I started at a young age. I personally feel that if a band wants to play for free then they should do it in other places.(not bars).There are other venues to play at, such as parks , outside of libraries (with written permission of coarse) and believe it or not even high schools etc. . I even played on a flatbed semi trailer for a couple thousand military personal, Yes for free..There are so many places to play especially if you advertise when and where you will be playing at.You might also talk to some businesses around your area
that are trying to promote themselves.You might be able to play there to help promote a certain product. If musicians use their imaginations they can find other places to play other than bars for free.....Thank you for allowing me to comment on this subject.

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eddie joe clark

7/13/2009 4:59:36 AM

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