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weAponX
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7/26/2009 8:43:58 PM
---- Updated 7/26/2009 8:51:24 PM
The Tale of a Songwriter
Most of you know me here, from MP3.com and other places. I respect most of you, and I think I got respect of maybe just a few of you, and I've even collaborated with some of you.
Most of you who write songs worked hard to finely hone your talent, and some of you have even been successful and sold some of your material. Why do we write music? Well, for one thing it is supposed to be FUN.
Last Summer, a partner of mine started sending me "poems" - Mostly pretty horrid, he sent me about 20 such items, and then he kept revising them, until finally one day, he asked me "Why don't you write music for some of these things"
He wanted country songs, but I am not a country songwriter. It was pretty much like batting my head against a brick wall, but one day, I sat down and by Ghod I got an INSPIRATION!
That's all it took, and so I wrote music for the songs "Grandma Lost The Farm" and not one but two versions of "I Believe I killed a Woman"
I posted the songs here, so that for one thing, my partner could listen to them, but I also wanted peer review. But I did not post the songs here for just peer review, I want these songs to be part of my page, as they represent my own personal stuff.
The moment the guy learned that I had the songs up, he got all proprietary on me, and said he did not want "people reading his lyrics" HUH? If you do not want people to read lyrics, then you pretty much refrain from writing them, the only reason for writing them and then asking them to be made into a song is because you WANT people to hear it. Also, it was not like I was pressing records or something.
It was then I learned that, instead of a full songwriting partner, this guy expected that I would record his lyrics, using melodies he made up, exactly HIS way- FOR FREE. This is called work for hire and I pretty much charge about $2000 dollars per SONG to act as a human karaoke machine.
I took his melodies, and I wrote in MY breaks and I put MY accompaniment underneath and I preformed, recorded and produced quality versions of one of his songs, and then I just gave up, and I told the guy I wanted to write MY own music for one particular set of lyrics, which he agreed to allow me to do.
And one of the results was a song called "I Believe I Killed a Woman" which I then uploaded. Well, it just sat there for about a week when I suddenly noticed it had been played 500 times and then I was informed that it had been put in the IAC BIG 50.
Now most of you, are usually not only HONOURED to have such a reaction to your works.
But when I informed my partner of this great boon, his reaction was to begin a harassment campaign against me and the IAC management to get me to remove "his lyrics from my page"
Earlier in this decade, I was roving the BBS and a friend of mine, Danny "Boots" Hunter - Posted lyrics to a song called "HOBO" - I told him I liked the words can I please write them into a song? He agreed and in 10 minutes I had them recorded and posted. Danny gave me the impression he liked it, but if he did or not, he NEVER told me I could not keep the song up there- He never bombarded the sites where I have the song posted for instant removal.
My partner, he began writing his poems last summer, and during the winter months revised them somewhat and there was some improvement, and it is almost one year since he started, and maybe he even has a good start, but his ideas as they are, are just not marketable- It took me to take his ideas and create a fully marketable song.
Now, some people are born with the gift of songwriting, and at an early age have written remarkable material. But not so for this person, and he has not shown any immediate understanding of the concept of Songwriting... To him, Songwriting is just a "Thing he can learn how to do "On The Internet" - This person, at 40 years of age, suddenly decided "I'm gonna write lyrics and sell them to Willie Nelson and Rascall Flatts" - To me, my friends, that sounds like a lot of gall and Hubris. If his material had that spark, maybe that could be done, but although his works have promise, he has a LOT of dues paying to pay.
But if I was allowed to take his lyrics, and edit them (He insists that all of his lyrics cannot be changed) and write MY music underneath them, without his "melodies" or "ideas" - Well, the potential there is that a LOT of good songs can be written, marketable songs.
But instead of using me to full potential, he just wants to use me as a kind of human tape recorded that spits out pro sounding demos.
Anyone think that is fair? Most of the musicians I know would have told the guy to go to blazes LONG ago.
When you start as a songwriter you must needs start at the bottom, and you develop your craft, and even if you simply write words, you MUST develop some musical skills: The first skill is Meter, and this person has NO sense of meter. He does have a sense of the melodic, but without meter it is worthless: A good song, has tensions built in by the strategic placement of silences. Breaks. That is what I am good at, and I have proved it in "Grandma Lost the Farm: and I totally proved it my my full musical composition for "I believe I killed a woman" where I carefully thought out the breaks and changes.
I put about one month of my life into creating something I was happy with, that was not only his but mine, and a damn good representation of both of our works, and I was under the impression I was working as a 50-50 partner. But I was wrong, the person never intended to give me my due for my work on his songs.
About 3 weeks ago I took a break from all things PC because I had to think over my future with this person, and I had decided that he really did not want ME, he really wanted some kind of means where he could write his own music and I had spent a lot of those 3 weeks looking for a good synth keyboard that I could give him to use as a kind of notepad, where he could record his own ideas and I would not havew to bother with it, I thought I had reached an understanding with this guy: I would try to help him get his songs exactly HIS way, in return I would put MY versions of them up here which is the only place where I want to keep them- I think that would be a fair deal and it is not asking much. .
So I open my email box yesterday and there are No LESS than 125 threatening emails from my EX-partner, using about 5 fake email addresses- Plus he had been harassing the folks at IAC here, and so because I they had not heard from me, the management removed the song "Grandma Lost The Farm" from my page (Which I co-wrote and recorded and produced, the version of which my ex partner had told me he had NO interest in copyrighting), and so I have that version going through the copyright process. - WHen it is done I'll be putting it back up simply on principle: I co wrote it, and I want it in my catalogue.
The guy had taken a work-print I had made, with both of our voices singing, which had my breaks in a different place, and he copyrighted THAT version and he did NOT give me full share of the copyright - Which I am going to start a challenge on, because I can prove my full co-authorship and also that I was NOT hired to write it but in fact did so as a full partner.
Now you take these two songs: HOBO by Danny Hunter and Jonny V and "Grandma Lost The Farm" by Jonny V and "Partner"
And that is the difference between Professionalism and a Hack-ism
This whole episode is sad really, because we could have been a fine songwriting team: Most of the best music has been written as a team, Rogers and Hart, George and Ira Gershwin, Lennon and McCartney.
I hope that none of youse guys have had to deal with what I have had to deal with with this utter jerkie.- I am just sorry that the management at IAC here had to put up with his crap!
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Jeff Allen Myers
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7/26/2009 10:42:20 PM
First off, the guy sounds like a world class tool and you should sever all ties with him. He will get nowhere on his own.
My advice is in the future before you start working with someone you get all expectations and agreements settled before work begins...preferably in writing.
Also, I suggest spending some time learning about copyrights....a copyright is formed when material is put in a tangent form...such as a recording. It is then the copyright is formed.... many people get this wrong and mistakenly believe you must file paperwork. Registering a copyright does not create it.
In Nashville, there is a gentleman's agreement when you agree to work with someone it is 50/50 down the line....no matter the amount of work involved.
This guy is delusional, he thinks his work will be "stolen" by posting it here. He needs a dose of reality and humility.
Good luck, I hope you learn from the experience. I would just move on...it is really not worth pursuing any farther.
Regards,
Jeff
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Tom O'Brien
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7/26/2009 11:32:54 PM
What a tale of woe! I know you were just venting and not really looking for advice. I think your lesson has already been learned. Just know we hear you! Like you said, songwriting should be fun. More than that, it should be a spiritually fulfilling thing where you can connect with that inner something that lives within each of us. Music is communal. It's too bad this guy doesn't get that.
One off-the-wall off-topic question: Where are you from that you use the phrase "must needs" instead of "have to"? In my experience, "must needs" is an archaic usage. Are you just being extra-literary or is it still in common usage somewhere? No criticism intended. I'm just curious.
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Jeff Allen Myers
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7/26/2009 11:46:29 PM
Tom I am not sure he is not looking for feedback.....it seems he continued to work with him after the initial blow off, so I am putting my two cents in whether he wants them or not :)
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weAponX
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7/26/2009 11:57:52 PM
---- Updated 7/26/2009 11:59:43 PM
Haha, I felt that I needed to use "must needs" it felt right, I myself prefer archaic language, no language is really archaic, it just stops being used.
Myself, I'd rather be a solid hepcat, awreet? root! but I don't know enough of that style.
I always use the spellings I learned when I was in school: colour, honour, organise, realise, cos that is the way it is in the Oxford dictionary I have.
The reason I never bothered with agreements and what-not with this JAGOFF is because I never HAD to. I've always worked with solid senders who never wronged me. The only contract I ever work with is a tacit agreement between myself and whoever else is writing a song with me that the finished product is ALWAYS the property of ALL of the authors involved.
The pissface approached me as if he wanted his lyrics, my music. He then dumped his actual conditions on me later.
So I'm going back to the original agreement, and to hell with him- In the copyright form, in the worksheet, there is a place where you "exclude" any claims to any part you did not author yourself, and so I'll just exclude his lyrics, as I have no intention of putting any form of claim on THOSE.
MY claim is on the entire project, the sound recordings AND the combination of music and words. which becomes a whole new copyright, and I can either list his prior copyright in the exclusion form, or not. It doesn't mater.
Basically, what I found out, and what he does NOT understand, is that According the the original agreement, I can write what the fuck music I want to ANY of his copyrighted poems, and he cant say jack shit, cos I have an EMAIL from him where he asks me to do so.
According to the law, the original written agreement is always the one that is honoured, you can't just change your mind, you're pretty much stuck with whatever you put in motion.
So I'm just going to protect my portion of the work here and secure the sound recordings as well.
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weAponX
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7/31/2009 3:28:16 AM
Welp, It seems like this issue is reaolving itself, I got word from the Copyright office:
If I felt that a song I cowrote was not copyrighted properly, as in they left my name out of the claimants box, I have the full right to send in a duplicate registration with the corrections. I am supposed to refer to his original registration number, but I do not have that, and it really dd not matter, cos at the time I sent my registration in, there was absolutely NO records on file listing any of these songs.
And so, the barrage of abusive emails seems to have ended, and I have the song "Grandma Lost The Farm" back UP on my page where it is supossed to be and where it never should have been taken from.
Everything I had believied about the protection of BOTH authors of any joint work, was absolutely true: Both authors have complete rights over it.
So I am so glad thats over!
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Sly Witt
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7/31/2009 2:50:11 PM
Wow! What a jerk your 'partner' is! I've been there, but never to the extent that you have.
Maybe the best recording that I ever worked on will never see the light of day. One of the other musician's wife wrote some of the lyrics (and they were wonderful). I co-wrote the music with an amazing artist. After a lot of people put a lot of time into this recording and we had what I think was a possible 'hit', the lyricist decided that she didn't want the song to be released. No amount of discussion with her would change her mind. What a loss. I've since wondered if she had 'borrowed' the lyrics from somewhere else, you know, and was afraid because the song was starting to get some notice.
On my latest tune, I gave a co-writing credit to a friend who gave me 2 words. I'm pretty sure he doesn't even know... I'll have to call him.
I hate that we even have to worry about crap like this. Good luck to you! You sound like a decent chap.
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weAponX
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8/1/2009 3:33:58 AM
---- Updated 8/1/2009 3:42:51 AM
Deee-Yamm! I guess I am not the only recipient of idiocy.
Sorry to hear about the song and the guys wife, but, you have EVERY right to COPYRIGHT the song and USE it:
The only reason I could see for not doing it, well, I see absolutely NO reason. You wrote it, you copyright it, you give her her FULL share as claimant, and that's it. She can NOT do what she wants with it, and you can DO what you want with it.
It is just that simple. The original agreement always stands, when there are multiple authors, and that original agreement always should be "Everyone Who Writes A Part of This Song gets an equal share of the rights"
-Even if they do not want it - The woman cannot prevent you from using the song, regardless of if she asked you nice (which my guy did NOT do) or if she was a jagoff like my EX partner.
If I were you? Jot down all the info who wrote in that song, and go to ECO.COPYRIGHT.GOV and copyright the FOOK out of that song!
Larreee that is cool: O gave David G Nestor a full share of the copyright for the songs on our album "Live Spit" even though he gave the songs to Doug Moody without my permission, cos he took the worst live show of our careers and gave it to Mystic Records, and they pressed it, and made us look like hacks! But I copyrighted the original songs and gave him full credit, even though all he wrote was one riff in the song "Freeway Shooter"
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Nikolaus von Knorring
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8/2/2009 1:09:11 PM
---- Updated 8/2/2009 1:11:06 PM
I once agreed to do singing on a track that was already recorded with another singer. I was to replace his vocals with mine and the dead line was 1 day. I liked the song and worked very hard that day. Picked out the melody, recorded my vocals with nearly the exact melody (according to me) just some touches to give it a personal feeling. When I was finished I sent the track to him and the next morning I got the reply:
- Can't you sing like the other guy?
He wanted me to be like you call it the human tape recorder. He had the opinion that his melodies could not be enriched in any way.
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