12/2/2007 11:21:59 AM
Praying for Peace on Earth.

12/2/2007 11:21:59 AM

Praying for Peace on Earth.
"Isn't man an amazing animal? He kills wildlife by the millions in order to protect his domestic animals and their feed. Then he kills domestic animals by the billion and eats them. This in turn kills man by the millions, because eating all those animals leads to degenerative, fatal health conditions like heart disease, kidney disease, cancer. So then man tortures and kills billions more animals to look for cures for these diseases. Elsewhere, millions of other human beings are being killed by hunger and malnutrition because food they could eat is being used to fatten domestic animals. Meanwhile, some people are dying of sad laughter at the absurdity of man, who kills so easily and so violently, and once a year sends out cards praying for 'Peace on Earth.'" — C. David Coats

12/2/2007 12:27:28 PM

We are a pretty amazing species. Arrogant, blind - and beautiful too!

12/2/2007 2:56:09 PM

--------good points--------phew!!!

12/2/2007 3:04:00 PM

and God in His infinite wisdom is shaking His head

12/2/2007 8:08:10 PM

and saying, "What a mess................how do we fix it?"

12/3/2007 5:00:49 AM

As the wise man said - "The only way we can fix anything is to fix ourselves - all change starts within!"

12/3/2007 7:53:00 AM

And look at the title we give ourselves Human derived for the word Humane.
What a bunch of assholes you humans are. Thank god Im a monkey mang.
Im a MONKEY!. But lions eat their young. Wait I better not give you any ideas.
Peace to vegans

12/3/2007 7:57:39 AM

"Peace on Earth begins inside"

12/3/2007 9:40:39 AM

Tis true......as Satch said and I agree, peace is an inside job!

12/3/2007 10:18:43 AM

Cool! I'm in!

12/3/2007 7:01:27 PM

Joking aside for just a moment, I hope there's room here for a different point of view. I support vegetarians and vegans as much as us omnivores. I don't blame people at all for their aversion to eating animal flesh. But I believe God put animals on this earth to serve humans in many ways. Some are here as companions, some as workers, some as entertainers, some as food. We are all destined to die as a result of living. The food we eat doesn't kill us, time does. What we choose to eat can extend or condense that time span, but the end is certain regardless. All animals deserve to be treated with respect, and those of us who thrive as a result of their sacrifice should always remember to be thankful for it.

12/3/2007 8:40:03 PM

Humans have always tried to take control away from God.

To imagine that we can solve our problems and have peace on earth through our own efforts alone is -- well -- futile.

When humans first tried to take control from God we brought our own destruction onto ourselves as well as to the rest of the planet. God's first act of grace was to "sacrifice" the animals so we could survive by eating them and wearing their skins.

A perfect sacrifice was needed to end the bloodshed and so God came to earth Himself and offered Himself as that perfect sacrifice which pays for everything and releases us from our death sentence.

At this time of year I'd just like to remind people that "peace on earth and goodwill towards men" as it was announced at the time of Christ's birth was peace between humans and God, not peace between humans and humans. It's a nice thought but it isn't going to happen until God makes it happen for us.

All we need to do is to wait for Him to come and end it once and for all.

In the meantime, we live in the promise of salvation. I don't know about you, this is what inspires me to be kind to animals and people more than anything else, although I fall short of the mark every day and will continue to do so until the end.

I have no confidence in human beings other than the good deeds which come from God, who is restraining OUR evil as He sees fit. And you may ask Him to do so.

This is the traditional Christian point of view that few seem to know nowadays, although even atheists had a thorough grasp of the subject 100 years ago.

12/3/2007 9:26:50 PM

Now, now, let's not start another confrontational thread. Folks, ignore the urge.

12/3/2007 10:18:12 PM

"Now, now, let's not start another confrontational thread. Folks, ignore the urge."

Ah, go ahead bite. I've said my "peace". :-)

12/4/2007 7:50:23 AM

I say, if that's what it takes for some to be kind to other humans and animals, then more power to it! Do whatever it takes. For some, the belief in Karma keeps them kind to humans and animals. I believe most religeons have a common thread about loving one another, and respecting all living things.

As far as eating meat goes, it's the cruelty that is heartbreaking......the way the animals are kept in such horrendous conditions and mass slaughtered with such inhumanity.

Years ago, people in the North had to eat meat in the winter. They couldn't grow vegetables in the snow. That's how they kept their families alive. The Aboriginal belief was that the animal was sacrificing itself to save the family in the cold winter, a gift from the Creator. The hunter lovingly and respectfully thanked the animal's spirit.

But I believe that "World Peace begins within" If everyone in the world found love and peace within their hearts, be it from religeon or however, there would be peace in the world for all.

12/7/2007 6:19:16 PM

I don't wish to sound blaming, self righteous, or even critical, but I think we need to reconsider traditions. God made the animals and all was good in the Garden of Eden. He gave us plants and seeds to eat as stated in Genesis. He made us omnivorous (able to eat plants and animals) for a reason. I see meat eating as a consequence of sin, but not neccessarily living out his plan. Most believe that "dominion" in Genesis means stewardship of the Earth, NOT a license to exploit as the meat industry does today. We should also consider the health consequences. Most people think their meat should be the "entree" or main course, but if we remember the Food Guide Pyramid we know that protein is (I believe) the second to the last food group needed (not to mention available also in plant forms), but the industry has convinced us that meat (animal flesh) is the most important. Personally, I live by the ideology that I do not feed my body with violent food, and no slaughter is without violence.

12/7/2007 7:27:38 PM

You were very patient in listening to everyone's opinion.

Glad to see you present yours!! You make some very good points for sure.

TT

12/8/2007 1:22:37 AM

I respect your views ... but I totally disagree about how animals should be treated...
Although I don't believe in cruelty, I think animal rights activist have gone way over-board ... We have millions of starving and neglected people on earth that I feel should be tended to first...

IMO The American Indians understood animals better than anyone on this planet...
They not only used them for meat but also every facet of their lives ... The hides kept them warm ... The bones made good tools ... The tallow made good oil ... Without the use of Animals for their needs the Indians would have perished...

My family have been hunters for years ... and I know very few people who respect animals more than we do ...
If certain animals are not hunted they become over populated and disease and starvation can set in at terrible proportions ... To let this happen is the worst kind of animal cruelty that there is ...
A good hunter always teaches the next generation about respect for the animals and also the land we call Earth ... It is something that keeps our family humble and is a very good way to spend time with our fathers and our children ... teaching them all about nature and how to show your respect ...
It would be a sin to kill an animal and not eat it .. there is nothing evil about that.

We were very poor when I was growing up and hunting was the only means my father had to feed us ... and I am proud to be a meat eater.

12/8/2007 5:30:14 AM

Eating meat or not is a totally personal choice that each of us must make for ourselves. But that's not the issue, for us anyway. The real issue is about the dis-connectedness that exists today between so many people and the food they eat. Let me tell you a wee tale to illustrate my point:

My good friend David organises Sinai trips with his friend Sachem, a Bedouin chief, as guide. On one trip that I went on, there were about a dozen other people... all was going really well, we had an amazing adventure, travelling deep into the desert with Sachem and a few other Bedouin tribes-people guiding us, finding us water, bringing us rice and pulses and vegetables to cook each day. They showed us the most amazing places! On the second last day of the trip, a bunch of the people got together and decided that they wanted to eat some meat because all we had eaten for the past 9 days was pulses, rice, vegetables, a little fruit... so they asked David what could be done to arrange some meat to eat. David explained to Sachem that the people wanted to eat meat, Sachem shrugged and rattled of some words in his Bedouin language to one of the young Bedouin men who was helping to look after us, and this young man leapt onto his camel and headed off into the desert. Now remember, we're miles from anywhere in the middle of the Sinai desert! So about 8 hours later the young man returns. Sachem tells David that it is okay, we are going to have meat to eat that night! The young man dismounts from his camel and the group of western visitors sees that he is carrying a very much alive and beautiful young goat, a kid, beating but quite happy. The westerners all looked appalled! They took David aside and said that they could not eat such a sweet animal and that the animal did not deserve to die! There, right there, is the dis-connection I am talking about. The people do not associate live animals with the meat that they eat - and this is the root of the problem!

Animals deserve to live healthy happy lives and deserve to be killed with respect, quickly and as humanely as is possible. Too many of the animals we eat are factory-farmed, force-fed, brutally slaughtered. And too many of the people who eat these animals know nothing about the animals and do not connect the meat that they eat with live animals.

So I think that all people, whilst still at school, should be taught to catch, respect, kill, prepare, cook and eat an animal. I think that if we changed our attitude to the food we eat we would live on a happier planet.

12/8/2007 5:57:41 AM

mmm goat.............

12/8/2007 8:36:10 AM

I've never had trouble killing an animal, but I take no pleasure in it.

The social points are well-taken, both the moral and the health issues.

Living in a rural environment gives us a lot of options, but city people don't have the luxury of choosing where their food comes from. Should they try to exert more influence on that? Sheilapray has a good argument.

Food is life after all. We owe it to ourselves and others to manage it as wisely as possible. I'm suspicious of many current agricultural practices, (but have never bothered to investigate, of course ;-).

Still, I would quit eating industrially-processed meat to protect myself more than anything else.

I like veggies best anyway so we don't eat a lot of meat. Couple times a year I really feel like having a huge steak -- I think my body is telling me that it needs it, so I go right ahead and do it.

Everybody decide for themselves, that's best.

12/8/2007 9:46:59 AM

This is one of my favorite quotes. I think the holidays, with all of it's consumerism, is a good time to get people thinking. I think the "peace" between humans and God has still not been accomplished. If it was we would not be discussing whether God created animals for our use or for their beauty. To think that any being exists only for our use is quite arrogant, yet quite predictable for mankind, since we have used other beings as well. Hunters have justified killing animals for centuries with such reasons as use and population control. I think that all predatory instincts are a consequence of sin, not a priviledge. Essentially, consequence comes from wrongs, priviledges come from rights, and while sin may be inevitable, predictable, or even acceptable too some, it is not without responsibility and accountability. I wonder if killing to eat is more of a consequence than a priviledge. With all due respect to hunters, this is my opinion, but I see no respect in causing death to an animal, it has to be alive for me to appreciate it's beauty. Population control is essentially a manmade problem-animals have less land to live on-and man needs to be accountable for this, not just animals. As the original quote states, humans are dying from hunger when they could be fed with the grains being grown to feed livestock, so other humans can eat meat abundantly. I wholeheartedly agree with the disconnectedness to our food and I think that if we all had to kill it ourselves there would be a lot less eaten. It bothers me that we are living in a time when "going green" is the latest craze. Green people want to save the planet-the air, the trees, the water-(the things neccessary for survival, but things without sentience)
and greening almost totally neglects to have concern for the animals. If the animal is far enough away to not bother civilization, it might get media coverage. Essentially, we have become so accustomed to using animals that not only will we ignore their value as fellow inhabitants, but we will also ignore the environmental consequences of factory farming, which is as unsustainable as oil. When someone asked me why do I care about animals when there are horrible things happening to humans, too. It is because there are more people doing more wrongs to animals and my compassion has no limits. Humans can get all the nutients they need without killing 80 billion + animals each year.

12/8/2007 10:13:14 AM

You evidently do not understand the animal world at all... In the first place we humans ARE animals ...
Is a Lion committing sin when he brings down an Elk to eat ... I don't think so ...

There are cycles of life for every creature ... because of hunters and game management, there are a lot more animals here for you to look upon their beauty..
Those are not excuses so hunters can go kill things ... Those are FACTS ...
You say you don't want to come off as self righteous... but you are...

12/8/2007 10:25:47 AM

Raising enough grain to feed the worlds population of Man and beast takes up a lot of land.... All the brush and wild animal habitats are not being destroyed by hunters ... hunters actually try to create habitat .... farmers push out all the cover and trees that wild animals depend upon for their survival ...
No place could you see this happening more was in my home state of Kansas ... All of the Bird populations, the deer, and a lot of other animals were becoming almost non existant from lack of habitat that the farmers had pushed out... Then about 25 years ago the state put in an extensive game management program and today the place is once again thriving with beautiful animals ... they had to actually pay farmers to stop raising the grain that you so dearly love because it was killing the animals...

You should really study something before you talk about it...

12/8/2007 10:45:31 AM

I do not claim meat eating is a sin, but I consider it to be part of the whole package under the circumstances we now face. Just because something exists ( the predatory instinct), does not neccessarily make it right.

12/8/2007 10:47:34 AM

I have read that more grain is feeding animals, than is feeding humans.

12/8/2007 10:52:18 AM

In Kansas they grow wheat .... They don't feed wheat to animals ... that goes to make your bread...

Look I understand the corporate cruelty and I agree with you ... but you are dead wrong when you talk about hunters not respecting animals ... and you should take the time to really understand how many animals are here because of hunters and their programs ....

12/8/2007 10:52:37 AM

Does anyone have evidence of plants having sentience?

12/8/2007 10:59:03 AM

I really don't mean to be self rightous. I have a set of moral beliefs that play a big part in this debate. I guess it is probable that I would sound that way but I do not wish to offend. I'm only trying to bring "food for thought" to the table here.

12/8/2007 11:06:03 AM

Well ... I respect your right to your opinion ... but I learned along time ago not to assume anything when it comes to beliefs ... There are always two sides to a story and to not look at the other side of things isn't doing your beliefs any good ...

One last statement and then I will leave it alone ....
Someone very Dear to me died of a disease not long ago ... as far as I'm concerned they could have killed every four legged creature on earth to find a cure to save her from dying ... That may be selfish but so be it ... I hope it never happens to you or anyone else .... 10 million Rats are not worth one Human life ...

12/8/2007 6:48:54 PM

There are are as many sides to any story as there are people, because no two people are alike. Except that we are all human beings with the same basic needs - water, air, food, shelter, and most importantly LOVE!

12/9/2007 8:49:08 AM

I think it's kind of funny that we are sort of, in a very benign way, fighting over "Peace on Earth."

Are humans very loving beings with a natural tendancy to be combative? We certainly are a competitive species.

It does make life more interesting. Cruelty, greed and war, however, is when it all gets out of wack and out of balance tipping into the extreme end of the polarity stick.

Had we all just gave Sheila a thumbs up, this would have been a very nice, but rather boring thread. All of the different perceptions and opposing opinions made it very interesting. So.......................Here's to "Peace on Earth." (however we manage to reach it or dream about it) deb

12/9/2007 9:30:10 AM

Theres alot of truths already explored thus far, many right on the mark! According to the Bible I've read. There will be no external peace on this Earth until the return of The Lord Jesus Christ. The very one we celebrate this time of year! However, as Debbie Hoskin correctly said, we can pray for internal peace. The kind that passes all understanding, to get us through the very turbulant time now, and ahead. Lets face it folks.The world is deteriorating right before our eyes, as the Bible said it would in the last days, confusing many people. Jesus said that he is the truth. If you know Jesus. You know the truth and are not confused PERIOD
Okay time to get off my soapbox now!
Internal Peace to all of you from New Babylon! Rev WJU

12/9/2007 10:05:04 AM

Peace on Earth you F---'G BASTARDS!!!! (I'm sorry....I just couldn't help doing that)

Sign---Anonymous

12/9/2007 10:21:51 AM

Debbie!!

What the heck was that!!!

(Hmm, Maybe some subconscious hostilities in the girl... and she seemed so nice,,,)

12/9/2007 11:01:46 AM

Debbie Debbie Debbie,
Do we need to call out the exorcist on you girl? WJU

12/9/2007 11:06:08 AM

Here's another thought that might stir the pot. If God put animals on earth to serve humans in many ways, why did he put dinosaurs on the earth, before man even existed? And why were they so bloody huge? Why were there so many of them? And why did they exist for millions of years?

Oil!

12/9/2007 12:02:10 PM

WOW...as an activist you come to expect controversy when you bring up this subject. This one seems to have sparked so many interesting and enlightening points. It makes all the controversy worth it! Thanks.

12/9/2007 12:43:03 PM

I get that. What we eat is traditional, cultural, and a requirement for life. But, traditions and cultures are subject to change, and we now know scientifically that dead animal flesh is not our only resource for protein. Most would say that it tastes better, but that is debateable considering taste has more to do with smell and tradition than with the mouth. (This info came from an article published in my town's newspaper at Thanksgiving a couple of years ago.) Also, if no one ever spoke out about anything , especially if it is controversial, lots of much needed change would never happen.

12/9/2007 1:38:13 PM

er........uh.......that wasn't me! Someone stole my identity!

12/9/2007 2:57:55 PM

I can speak with a little authority on this topic as we are killing 2 wether hoggets (young sheep) tomorrow for the freezer------
I think sheila is correct when she disses the agro industrial meat companies.There is no doubt that often the animals in question travel huge distances in trucks with no water, crammed into tiny spaces, the smaller ones get covered in faeces, then they arrive at the slaughter house, where they can smell the blood-----
They are stunned with a gun to the head, swung onto a chain where their throats are slit, and then they are butchered by skilled knifemen.
One of these guys is coming out here tomorrow, where we will herd all our flock into a yard, select two animals who have been in a "natural" environment a mixed age flock----- of mothers and lambs and a couple of rams.
We will let the rest of the flock into a new paddock and dispatch the two as humanely as possible (with one knife stroke)---every piece of the animal will be used ----if not for human consumption,---- pet food or compost------these animals are fed solely on grass, and live as a herd, with nature the overriding decider---

Price is the driver for the industry-------they do their utmost to get the meat to you, the consumer at the cheapest possible price-- so Larree won't grumble when he buys his burger.

In many countries chickens are kept in tiny cages where they cannot even turn around (batteries)---they have no life---they just exist to give you cheap chicken meat!!

With all due respect I don't think bringing God into the argument is fair----many of these guys simply don't believe in God---and God should not be used as a way of abdicating ones responsibilities-------and good on ya DEB for a good bout of cussing!

Rob

12/9/2007 3:30:51 PM

So basically..........it does seem to be, that Religion obscures the truth!!! Causes divides amongst people of a different faith!!!God is a man created entity...rather than man being created by God!!!

Me's don't feel comfortable believing in the same voodoo hoodoo as our primitive ancestors!! We have the technology these days, that enables us to explain events such as: volcanoes, tsunamis, disease and so on. A technology which they did not possess in these times...if they did, the Bible would be a lot different!!


Salty fish love


Jack

12/9/2007 4:12:28 PM

My comment goes mainly to Mr. Stegor's earlier one,
The Dinosaurs, UFOs, and Bigfoot never existed. Its all a lie that the devil has come up with to confuse people from the real truth about creation. The reason bits and pieces of evidence are found scattered about is because the Devil was a very powerful Angel of God that was cast down still with all his mighty powers intact and is able to plant dinosaur bones (when the world is only approx 12,000 years old going by the Bible). UFOs suggest theres other life besides ours (which could be just an illusion by the Devil or demons themself traveling around our Earth). Last but not least Bigfoot (which suggests evolution, the biggest lie of them all). If none of these distractions existed man wouldn't question creation or even the existence of God himself.
The Dinosaurs never existed. UFO's aren't really alien space travelers. Man will never capture a Bigfoot PERIOD
Okay now you did it you got me preaching!
Internal Peace from New Babylon! Rev WJU

12/9/2007 10:13:56 PM

Ya know...I have read and reread this tread wondering just where I labeled anyone. I wonder where I judged someone. I posted a quote from someone I have never met because I agree with it. I have shared some of my lifestyle choices and explained why I made these choices. I have used the pronouns I, we and our quite a bit, but never have I said you, or they, he or she. I, on the other hand, have been told I know nothing about animals, I assumed wrong, I have been labeled vegan (though I never said I was), extremist, and I have even been compared to a jihadist extremist for my assumed diet choice. I have been critiqued for bringing God or religion into this discussion, but I'm not the only one who did and it so happens that my spiritual views do have something to do with my points. I never accused meat eaters of being sinners, in fact, I did not say that the act of eating meat was sinful. I said it is part of the whole package, meaning mankinds demise. Everyone has the right to disagree, but attacking me for my beliefs is unneccessary.
About 2 years ago I helped start a "Slow Food" group in my town. Some of us branched off from the Sierra Club. I had become disenchanted with environmentalists because of their neglect to include meat consumption as a threat to our planet, despite much evidence to the contrary. I started activism for animals about this time, as well. I found that as I researched food issues it often included animal welfare issues and visa versa. I came to realize that better animal welfare does not solve animal issues, because as long as animals are considered property they will be exploited by someone. Then, in order to align my lifestyle with my beliefs, I had to make a diet change. Let me tell you, it is not easy. I have not reached the place where I can call myself vegan. I do agree with their philosophy, though, and I strive to live by it, despite falling short at times.
I was once married to a hunter. We had irreconcillable differences, lol. I was once a gun owner, but now I believe in non violence. I owned a few chickens for about 6 years, but once I read some AR material about 2 years ago, I became their guardian. I changed. I did it for me, for the planet, and for the animals. I did it because of my beliefs and research. Your lives, your choices, and your beliefs are in your hands.

12/10/2007 4:38:27 AM

"The Dinosaurs, UFOs, and Bigfoot never existed. Its all a lie that the devil has come up with to confuse people from the real truth about creation."

The person who posted this, William J. Urmson, is actually a satanic beast trying to deceive the world. Actually he feeds his dog dinosaur bones stolen from the Smithsonian, out of spite.

signed,

Bigfoot

12/10/2007 9:40:58 AM

Mr UFO Insider,
Dispite your personal, verbal, assault against me. I wish you and your family Peace, Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year! WJU

12/11/2007 10:21:45 AM

I agree with you on that, Laree. And I'm glad to know that all your snapiness is not because of me!

12/11/2007 10:30:03 AM

The only thing standing between the human race and a peaceful world is the ability to understand another point of view.
-Me

12/11/2007 2:48:41 PM

I'll drink to that...........But if you find you don't understand the difference, at least tolerate difference. We humans have a habit of condemning what we don't understand. If it's different than what I am or what I believe, it must be evil.

Me

12/11/2007 5:11:27 PM

That's because us humans are afraid of anything different, it threatens us, so we put it down. Fear! I fear fear :)

Steven Stills - Word Game 1960-something...

Would you knock a man down if you don't like the cut of his clothes
Could you put a man away if you don't want to hear what he knows
Well it's happening right here people dying of fear by the droves
And I know most of you
Either don't believe it's true,
Or else you don't know what to do
Or maybe I'm singing about you,
Who knows.

It's incredibly sick, you can feel it, as across the land it flows
Prejudice is slick when it's a word game, it festers and grows,
Move along quick, it furthers one to have somewhere to go
You can feel it as it's rumblin'
Let emotions keep a tumblin'
Then as cities start to crumblin'
Mostly empty bellies grumblin'
Here we go

People see somebody different fear is the first reaction shown
Then they think they've got him licked the barbaric hunt begins and they move in slow
A human spirit is devoured the remains left to carrion crow
I was told that life is change
And yet history remains,
Does it always stay the same
Do we shrug it off and say
Only God knows

By and by, somebody usually goes
Down to the ghetto try and help but they don't know why folks treat them cold
And the rich keep getting richer and the rest of us just keep getting old.
You see one must have a mission in order to be a good Christian
If you don't you will be missing High Mass or the evening show
And the well fed masters reap the harvests of the polluted seeds they've sown,
Smug and self-righteous they bitch about people they owe,
And you can't prove them wrong, they're so God damn sure they know
I have seen these things with my very own eyes and defended my battered soul,
It must be too tough to die,
American propaganda, South African lies
Will not force me to take up arms, that's my enemies' pride,
And I won't fight by his rules that's foolishness besides,
His ignorance is gonna do him in and nobody's gonna cry,
Because his children they are growing up
And plainly tired of putting up
With bigots and their silver cups
They're fed up, they might throw up
On you

12/11/2007 5:34:22 PM

-----and haven't politicians got a lot of mileage, just by making us fearful of the future------they have teams, researching which fear buttons to press next----WW3?

Are we really so gullible?

12/13/2007 11:26:11 AM

I'm a vegetable lover! Not a vegan, vegetarian...or vegetable. But last night I cut my cabbage head and it screamed for me to lettuce be nicer to each other.

12/13/2007 12:15:11 PM

So sorry - but I just carrot understand you... :)

12/13/2007 12:23:42 PM

I can-o-peas you if you'll just lend me an ear of corn. Afterall, I'm just a human bean in this soupy game of life.

12/13/2007 3:09:37 PM

We'll just vegetate--------before we sprout!

12/13/2007 3:15:11 PM

I believe that there is an inherent selfishness in the human race that must be deliberately cast aside on a moment-to-moment basis. I would be quite cynical to say that our wish for "peace on earth" has more to do with not wanting to deal with chaos, feeling good about ourselves, and "looking good" in the eyes of others. But the important point to remember is that there is a need and desire in all of us to "recognize our short-comings and to encourage ourselves and eachother to improve". We're all in the same boat, and I'm glad we get a chance to reflect upon
how our attitudes and behaviors contribute to the chaos we so desperately seek to eliminate. God help us.

12/13/2007 7:06:16 PM

Hey all....it's Jack here. God has stepped out for a bit ........so I'll be stepping in for him.

Y'all can pray to me for a while, I think you'll find that I'll do a better job than him..........there's only so much fictitious characters can do!!!

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