Topics
IAC Prime Member
|
| | | |
never never band
|
5/19/2008 8:30:03 PM
---- Updated 5/19/2008 9:38:13 PM
Poetry, atheism, Gods and pixies...perhaps a monster or two..
My half brother Hank goes to the Battan Memorial Cemetery with 2 beers, one for him and one for his Dad. It's a thing he regularly does, sits and chats and pours a pint of plain on the grass.
He's an atheist, most of the time, and agnostic when times are tough. Thats pretty much exactly how I am too except I regularly tease myself and shimmer my own heartstrings with poetry and myth until I'm drunk with animistic visions...visions which I diligently banish in the cool light of dawn. I guess I call that "art"
My son is an atheist as well, though when we passed a wounded dog on the road he was impassioned about retrieving it, rushing it to the vet, talking to it like a protective mother and insisting that it survive. I mentioned to him later that there was no obvious evolutionary advantage to stopping and helping the dog, that it seemed like the compulsion to do so came from another place...
he said he doubted that,,,,
I wonder if he really is an atheist, maybe he's like me and Hank, making up stories and moral codes and animistic notions for some reason we don't quite grasp.
Here in Northern Nuevo Mexico there is a persistent belief in the Saints of the Catholic Church. Catholics here are unique in that they were separated from the Mother Church in the early colonial days and were left here in rough, unforgiving terrain to carve their saints from Cottonwood, paint their Retablos and Bultos with earth pigments and Cactus Juice sizing and and slowly create a delightfully pagan tradition woven of Curenderas and Brujos and the saints and, most of all, the Lady of Guadalupe.
There is also a persistent belief in Ghosts, communion with the dead, the roadsides are covered with crucecitas or descansos (altars to family members killed in car accidents) The little cemeteries are always visited and all manner of little gifts and flowers are left behind.
I think this is what Hank is doing, and I too in my way but we do it not because God is there, and not because the dead are talking to us but maybe precisely because God is Not there, and the dead are really gone, and we cant stand the idea...so we do this 3 dimensional poetry and talk to ourselves and nurse the wounded back to health simply because God is NOT doing it....and it seems like someone should.
s.
|
|
kranky king
|
5/19/2008 9:29:25 PM
You are very articulate. I enjoyed that. Really.
Except it should be "altars" to the dead not "alters" to the dead (or should it?)
I've heard it said that if you ask God to reveal himself he will. That's what I told my son anyway. You can hear his music here (here, his music, hear?)
http://iacmusic.com/artist.aspx?ID=77226
|
|
never never band
|
5/19/2008 9:39:08 PM
altars it is!
:-)
|
|
never never band
|
5/19/2008 11:10:52 PM
Thats what my mom told me.."ask God to reveal himself"
and 40 years later I'm starting to think maybe she was mistaken.
|
|
Conversation Suicide
|
5/19/2008 11:34:08 PM
I agree that music touches on spirituality, but ALL religions have horrible HUMAN-made flaws... that Aethism often makes damn good sense. -phlegm
|
|
satch
|
5/20/2008 12:17:54 AM
Organised religion, in a "churchy" kind of way, is certainly not where it is at. But in a personal way, in other words living with a personal morality, people need that!
For me, it's nature that rocks! In the words of the old rhyme:
The kiss of the sun for pardon,
The song of a bird for mirth
You're nearer to god's heart in a garden
Than anywhere else on earth.
|
|
kranky king
|
5/20/2008 4:37:08 AM
NEVER:
"Thats what my mom told me.."ask God to reveal himself"
and 40 years later I'm starting to think maybe she was mistaken.
KRANKY:
Gee, that's too bad. Anyway I've got the headphones and I'm off to listen to your music.
|
|
Jo Ellen
|
5/20/2008 6:45:55 AM
---- Updated 5/20/2008 6:45:55 AM
Atheism is also man-made and man-centered. Yes, even this "religion" is inevitably flawed. I respect the right to believe (mine and yours). I reserve the right to consider various explanations for human behavior, and our fascination with the unknown. I believe we are aware of our eternal value even in our carnal existence. I choose to believe that there is Divine order to all of it.
P.S. Your son sounds very compassionate.
|
|
Hugh Hamilton
|
5/20/2008 7:20:50 AM
I chose to tackle some of these topics in two "new-this-year" songs, which I prefer to let speak for themselves:
Men of Religion
Are You (A Believer)?
|
|
never never band
|
5/20/2008 7:57:08 AM
well yes, all human philosophy is obviously Man Made.
Like I say I don't always know why we do what we do, and my lack of certainty makes me as much agnostic as atheist , but so far I have found no compelling to reason to believe in "God".
I grew up in a very religious family, was an alter boy, left the Episcopalian church on my own at 13 and went to Bible Study at the Baptist church because I wanted to get Baptised again, A phenomenon I had seen while attending that church with a friend. I had high hopes for that, I had been praying all my young life to no avail and I thought maybe this would, I don't know...Open the airwaves or something.
:-)
As It turned out I got wet, and learned a good deal about myself and my fellow man. I realized that what was going on here was a sort of self induced Schitzophrenia.
I think Atheism is actually the most compassionate stance we can take, I understand how uncertainty and the fear of Death, Pattern Recognition and the need to protect our young etc. would lead us to create God. How xenophopia in groups that are competing for resouces would lead us to demonize other peoples Gods. It all makes sense.
But that doesn't make it true.
Admitting that you don't know exactly how the Universe works, but using your rational mind and best scientific method to test all the various ideas (such ones as can be tested) leads to atheism. I can still love Poetry and am passionate about Myth, more than ever maybe because now I know what's at stake. Understanding that there is No God and we are alone, and still choosing from that position to do the right thing, to support civil society and respect life, thats real Moral Courage.
Understanding that the crazy gestures and prejudices of religion are really born of our fear and uncertainty as we tumble through this abyss of stars leads to real compassion.
We're in a hell of a position as a species and God is not going to save us.
I guess in these times I'm an Atheist in the sense that "disbelief" is what I embrace more and more. It's taking an active stance against the idea of God. I do that when I'm angry and when I see the idea of God is ruining civil society. I say Atheist because my Agnosticism simply leaves me in a state of mind where there is no God, whereas Atheism leaves me in a position where religion in civil society is no longer tolerable, it becomes as intolerable and racism or any other anti social behavior.
|
|
srm
|
5/20/2008 8:11:06 AM
---- Updated 5/20/2008 8:22:12 AM
Sounds like you've read Joseph Campbell.
Btw, congrats on hitting the top 15 of the Hitline.
|
|
Jo Ellen
|
5/20/2008 8:35:21 AM
Well, I definitely hear what you're saying. I just caution about pre-judging what religion means for societies- as a blanket conclusion. I also want to say that I am not afraid of death, dying, or admitting that I may be wrong. Like you, I have come to conclusions based on examining evidence within my own life and historically. We have had other blogs that addressed the God debate thoroughly. I think that what is important for me to say is that if the God that I read about in the Bible does exist, He does not promise us a perfect world. The God of the Bible is Loving, but He is also Holy and Just. According to this Word- there is nothing that goes unseen, and all things will be brought to justice either in this time or the time to come. My point being, that my belief in God cannot be discredited by the fact that there is unjust suffering in the world. In fact, I am more compelled to believe that our own compassion toward such suffering is a reflection of God's own nature, which I believe we are sensitive to when we allow God to work through us. Pretty much if you want to understand why things must be the way they are, there is a rational, purposeful, beneficial, and fair explanation. But preaching is not my purpose for this blog, nor is door- to- door sales. I hope you understand that I have the utmost respect for your opinion, but I wish you to understand that many rational people believe in powers greater than themselves, that cannot necessarily be physically seen, but can be felt and experienced (and sometimes measured through scientific means). What is fear? What is love? What is peace? Is it chemical, biological, adaptive, rational, spiritual....? I believe... YES. And inspirational too, as we all know how we are influenced to write and compose about such experiences.
|
|
never never band
|
5/20/2008 10:57:06 AM
---- Updated 5/20/2008 10:57:49 AM
you're not afraid to die?
really?...
I hear people say that sometimes, I've even said it myself, but really that was just bravado on my part, I don't think its true at all.
I think that men get into a fight or flight scenario, it is fear that pumps that adrenaline that keeps us alive in life threatening situations.
Women, and maybe especially women who have children have a different neuro chemical response that is tied up with Oxytocin, their reaction to life threatening situations includes the protection of offspring so they are more likely to use negotiation.."tending and befriending" as it's come to be called by some researchers.
But really, all of our greatest survival techniques in the face of disaster are driven by Fear.
I don't think the two strategies are strictly divided by gender, there is a mixing and mingling...but one thing I do know is that when a healthy human is in a life threatening situation they are afraid.
s.
|
|
| |
�2015-16 IndieMusicPeople.com All Rights
Reserved
| |
|