Topics
Basic (free) Member
|
| | | |
Francesca Tamellini
|
6/16/2016 12:46:18 PM
Some advice from the old lags
I know a lot of you are dedicated to indie and quite idealist. I like it, but I need to make some money from music. The harsh reality of life means that if I am going to get some decent equipment and improve, money has to come from somewhere. So what is a girl to do? I am seriously thinking of borrowing some money and going to a producer in London to get a really professional demo - but what then? Back to banging on locked doors, albeit with a good product? My fear is that it is all personal connections and I am on the outside. I really enjoy being on here and hanging out virtually, but I'm guessing that none of you live off IMP downloads!
Any suggestions? Anyone know which doors might open of you knock hard enough? Should I become a firefighter instead?
|
|
Two Silo Complex
|
6/16/2016 1:17:20 PM
If you get into the right group you can make good money playing covers in bars.
Making a living of indie material does happen for some but not likely.
investing in a good demo is only worth it if you already have interest in it for yourself don't expect to make your money back.
That is this "old hags" opinion.
Two Silo Complex,
Ken
|
|
Francesca Tamellini
|
6/16/2016 1:21:15 PM
Lag, not hag!
|
|
LyinDan
|
6/16/2016 1:23:21 PM
---- Updated 6/16/2016 1:25:54 PM
Sad to say, live play is where you can make money as an Indie starting out. Sales are unlikely from just Internet sales no matter who you are. If you want to attract attention from the big shots who can make you a star, you have to either be related to one, or attract a big enough following in live play to gather attention.
Doesn't necessarily have to be in bars, but that's where most work is starting out.
|
|
Steve White
|
6/16/2016 1:27:00 PM
You're young enough to grab yourself a really good Band and a really good agent.
I would not make a demo before you do those two things.
|
|
Two Silo Complex
|
6/16/2016 1:28:43 PM
Lag or hag whatever floats your boat. Don't expect sales to carry you or pay your bills you have to be out playing live to make money. You can get by on if your good but its a lot of work and a tough schedule to live by.
Two Silo Complex,
Ken
|
|
|
6/16/2016 1:39:55 PM
This is a difficult question to answer and most of us have wrassled with our own dreams quite a bit. I'm going to tell you my own philosophy but you're probably not going to like it.
The current climate is just not at a place where recording even great songs can be related to money at all. This is the wrong era for any belief of a possible fortune in music.
Some of us focus on making the best music we can in between earning an income doing something else. There's always this idea in the back of our minds that if we get good enough and get our stuff out there, someone will champion us and make something happen. However the more we vest any hopes in that, the more unhappy we'll probably be so the bottom line is, if you love your music enough, you can stay creative and positive but it takes blinders to ignore the dream that's been put in your head up to this point in your life.
The plus side is that you're a pretty great artist and that's a pretty cool thing to be, once you strip away the vestiges of the pursuit that got you there.
|
|
Steve White
|
6/16/2016 2:43:58 PM
I don't know that I agree that no one makes money on music anymore.
I think if you have a great Band and play out, get a huge following and you will make money. It's all about exposure. Get enough and you'll make something of yourself. There are new Artists out there all the time that have sold out concerts and I really doubt they're doing it for free.
It's like any job do it well and long enough and you'll get there.
I just saw that Facebook has a Facebook Live App and I'm going to let my friends know that are still playing here locally in Rhode Island.
It's great, you can stream live so a good way to get your sound out to the people that are not local or just can't make it. Also a great PR Tool.
Steve
|
|
Two Silo Complex
|
6/16/2016 2:51:08 PM
my advice of an "old Hag"
Do your music for yourself. Love it nurture it but don't expect it to pay you back financially. Don't invest money in it you can't afford to.
Use music is your outlet.This is where you can be free, Where you can be anyone you want to be. It's not going to keep the lights on and the bill collectors away.
Sorry yo be the bearer of bad news to a young star. I 'm not known for casting illusions I say it how it is the truth warts and all.
Keep your dream alive but find another way to pay your way.
Two Silo Complex,
Ken
|
|
Larree
|
6/16/2016 2:59:23 PM
If money is the reason you create original music give up music. But if you do play music and need to make money join a cover band that plays weddings, bar mitzvahs, bars, and/or cruise ships. Or you can become a music teacher. That's where the 'money' is in music.
|
|
Francesca Tamellini
|
6/16/2016 3:38:20 PM
That wasn't what I was asking, but thank you anyway.
|
|
The Jay Dyall Project
|
6/16/2016 3:56:28 PM
One way to get known to a wider audience and get potentially signed on
where you can make money is to videotape yourself playing piano and singing, even if its lip synching to your already recorded tracks, and post them on YouTube. In the description box add links to where your songs can be downloaded, and promote yourself in as many sites as possible.
But don't sign up to where you have to pay the sites to upload and sell your music, that's just counter-productive when your intent is to make money!
You have a couple of things in your favor: You are young, you write great songs and you have an amazing voice! It's still a gamble but you have better odds than others. And all you can do is continue making great songs and be patient.
Your time will come someday! :-)
|
|
IMPoster
|
6/17/2016 12:54:12 AM
If ever we wonder why no-one is giving us money for our music, we should also ask ourselves a few questions because online musicians are all singing from the same hymn sheet and basically the sellers and buyers are one and the same. So...
How many downloads have YOU bought ?
How many artists are YOU supporting ?
How much do YOU contribute to sites that support you ?
How much research do you do about the current music opportunities ?
How often do you listen to your friends downloads entirely ?
Do you know anyone who is making money and asked them your questions ?
Do you think 'money earners' always make good music ?
Does the general public really want what you have to sell ?
Apart from making songs at home and getting good reviews online how far have you gone out of your comfort zone to put yourself in a money earning position ?
We all think people should love our music, we're as good as paid artists - BUT there are so many of us... we are everywhere, doing our thing - but if we want money we have to do THEIR thing don't we?
|
|
Francesca Tamellini
|
6/17/2016 2:48:04 AM
I think to an extent there is some compromise. I think people like Amy McDonald and some others get to do their own thing. I think old established bands get to do their own thing, and real, lasting bands stuck to their guns and did it from the beginning.. The real manipulation is in the area of Bosnia's got talent etc.
I do download some indie stuff and try to keep abreast of what's on, the friends I have in this area are people I have chatted to here, but indie downloads earning 50c per time are not likely to help much.
My original question was whether or not it is worthwhile paying for a producer. The moral lecture on supporting other artists is all very nice, but doesn't really move things forward.
|
|
|
6/17/2016 3:09:42 AM
I think IMPoster was trying to get you to connect with just what you're looking to do.
I believe songwriters like you need to go the DIY route and learn to produce yourself, for the same financial investment you could have equipment that allowed you to do your own stuff for years. I'm still using the digital recorder I bought in 1998. If you were just a singer that might be another story but you can grow your music exponentially by having the freedom to work on it within your own house.
|
|
IMPoster
|
6/17/2016 3:52:54 AM
I was talking generally with the check list (replace you with one)
To answer the question about paying for a producer - I know people who've done that, I know people who have paid for studio time and produced on studio equipment and I know people (as Scott said) who go DIY with software and recording gear of various levels
BUT to be perfectly honest, sometimes it's quite hard to tell the difference when you listen to the end product. Selling expensively produced songs is just as hard and a lot of listening equipment is not complimentary sound-wise anyway.
If you pay to have an online manager or distributer they will be using the same contacts as every other promoter in most cases.
Re earning money - Here at IMP there are quite a few people who submit in competitions (e.g. Stoneman) Elsewhere many artists buy expensive upgrades that include distribution to major 'play' sites .... as I'm sure you already know from reading the PL. People still have to know who and what to search.
I'm impressed that you are contributing here and glad you're enjoying the banter to some extent because this sort of help/advise is pretty illusive on other community music sites these days.
|
|
Larree
|
6/17/2016 10:48:30 AM
Other than the purchasing of gear, rental of rehearsal or recording studio time, or a photo session, you should not pay anyone for any other services ever. Artists don't pay producers - labels pay producers. If a 'producer' is asking an artist for money that 'producer' is not worth shit. Stay away from them.
|
|
_REDDISH__11-27-11_001.jpg)
Steve April
|
6/17/2016 3:06:15 PM
Well, there are many views here, that's good. Perhaps a diverse range of views will be informative.
I also am very impressed with your songs, have added em up to m'stations with commentary. Laura Nyro comes to mind, now there's a singer-songwriter who
stayed with her piano/vocals, and found a way, though perhaps with a backing band I dunno. You remind me of her, in a way, with the purity of line/focus, and your beautiful vocals/piano playing.
Have you considered finding an agent? A good agent will handle much of the business end, help find gigs in coffeehouses, prob'ly preferable to bars lol, also offer encouragement, if you value their view.
Beware of phonies, and unscrupulous types. "Welcome to the jungle." Make sure any agent presents you with a list of references, and testimonials, clients who are happy with his/her work, often found on their web site. That is essential. A "connected agent" may ease your way with helpful advice, and work on your behalf.
all the best,
Steve
|
|
Richard Scotti
|
6/17/2016 5:54:46 PM
Try auditioning for the American TV show, "The Voice". You have the look and the talent to go far on that show. Send them some videos of yourself singing and playing the piano. Even if you don't win, the exposure is priceless. But you could win! (imo)
|
|
.jpg)
Bob Elliott
|
6/18/2016 10:09:35 AM
You are young and I assume you have no kids. If you want to chase music, now's the time. Join a band, join four bands. Work out a solo act, too. Get gigs, learn material, make material.
Do it like crazy, because if you have kids later, you will see your time for things like that will shrink to about ten percent or less than the time you have now.
Hit it on all fronts, talent shows, bars, coffee shops, Internet videos, music site with your stuff, everything you can ten or more hours a day. Now is the time if you're going to try.
If you are living on your own, you need cash for rent and such, but a single person without kids just might be able to feed and house themselves on gig money. If not get the smallest part time work that gets you by and let's you have time for music.
Then hit it all day. Get gigs, advertise gigs, figure out who the musicians are near you, try to start bands with the best.
Lots of seasoned players love to have a female vocalist fronting their band. There may be a lot of work available.
You gotta go at it more than full time. Forty hours a week isn't enough.
But you're unattached right now, so now is the time to throw your whole force into it.
There's a reason parents don't want their kids in this biz. It's very uncertain money. At this stage you can afford some uncertainty, later stages of life the uncertainty doesn't play well.
|
|
Two Silo Complex
|
6/18/2016 12:09:53 PM
I agree with the last points made by:
Scott
IMPoster
Larree
Steve April.
You don't need to pay a producer for sure, an audio engineer possibly but you wont get your money back if you do.
I think the answer to your question lies in what it is you want. If you can't produce the quality you want on your own then is the personal investment of a good finished product worth it to you ?
If that answer is yes then consider saving for it. If that answer is you are satisfied with the quality of productions you can do on your own then there in no need for further investments other that what you think you need to make your sound the way you want it.
Two Silo Complex,
Ken
|
|
|
6/18/2016 12:17:39 PM
Lot of good advice throughout here....
Larree made a very crucial point,
if a producer wants money from you, he's likely not terribly good,
because generally it either is the label paying the producer,
or, the producer sees talent and does it as an investment,
and ultimately gets paid by the label just the same anyway....
I believe the story of Lesley Gore and her producer Quincy Jones went that way.
Meanwhile,
I imagine, you have to have some sort of a job presently.
Because everyone's making a point, it's real hard to almost impossible
to make money selling one's music nowadays, unless you're a very established
and signed artist...
it's true you're young so now would be the time to chase
the dream...
the telly shows, could turn out very fortuitous for you,
you're the thing they eat up.
I was on a show like that once, auditioned anyway,
they like the youngsters, I was already too old.
It is a youngster's business if you dream of hitting the bigtime,
as I did, till I was too old to seriously think it's still ever gonna happen....
Now I just do it, just to do it,
just to know I can do it, and well.
But you really have been handed a wealth----what the hell is a bloody lag anyway?
of information here,
like the go at it all the time,
many bands, probably not a bad idea if you can keep up with the energy level
you'll need to do that, especially in more than one band,
but very important though,
do you have a computer, or are you working just off a laptop
or a phone even?
I work off an iMac.
On it, is an actually Free Program,
which is downloadable, yes for free,
on the internet,
the program is called "Audacity".
with this program,
I do that thing I do.
It's how I made the tracks you just sang on.
Now, with actually a lot less money
than it sounds like you're about to seek
to drop in a producer's pocket who as Larree points out
is a bloody charlatan and does not deserve your money,
you could get a microphone,
some kind of mixing board,
unfortunately, I barely understand how you wire this stuff up myself,
if you want to take a sunny vacation to NYC,
I'll record you till the cows come home,
beyond that, your best option is get set up yourself,
microphone, mixing board, download the audacity program
and I'll try to explain to you what I know about working with it.
It blows my mind, to think about the money I spent
in my youth, in NYC Recording Studios,
over a hundred bucks a session....
and now, I get a better product,
even more tracks than available then; 24.
For free.
Television.
You're young, you have The Voice,
so yeah, The Voice is a show to look into.
Britain's Got Talent.... what else,
doesn't that Simon guy have a new show after leaving American Idol
called The X Factor or something?
You wanna look for a shortcut, you, should be probably thinking television.
Because out there in the field,
forget it, there's a milliondey million kabillion of us.
All of us very nearly, having tried as long as you have.
I can remember, when I was 22.
Writing songs, hoping I'd make it 'soon'.
You really do have to go for it like a mad bastard with endless energy for it too.
While you have the energy.
And also, realistically,
I don't see how you can pay the bills presently with music.
Whether it's fireman (which sounds a bit dangerous, but maybe you fancy
the daredevil life just the same, I'll worry about you, but too bad on me!)
or whatever else,
you really have to not kid yourself,
it's about the most far fetched life to go for that you could have picked.
I know from whence I speak.
I was sure I'd be the biggest thing since Pizza.
I'd keep making music tracks for you,
and if we can establish a solid way
of transmitting the wav files back and forth
without complication, then you'd just need to be able
to do your own vocal recording in your own house,
then send it back to me and I could assemble it.
Generally, Producers are Kind of Entrepreneurs,
and Larree's right, they're not worth a look if they want to charge you.
The Label pays them, now, or later....
they also tend to pick up the tab for Studio Musicians,
until such a time as a label will do it.
They invest in you or they don't.
I already have.
I'd be willing to do so more,
a lot more.
I have no problem with that,
but you need,
1, to be able to survive,
so as most likely a bear can't bake a cake for you,
a dream of music won't pay the rent yet,
so you'll need some sort of a job, really.
2, to be able to record vocals,
meanwhile,
yes, you could be, looking for a band,
maybe, if the Fates are aligned,
you could happen upon a band,
that has everything, already, but you.
And you walk in, and it's all 'kla-dunk' and there's the whole thing.
It instantly fits together.
You are young, and believe me the clock is ticking ferociously fast,
faster than you can ever imagine.
I was you, figuratively speaking, a mere ten minutes ago.
So, use all that energy you have at the age of 22,
I passed 55 last year, it does not stay at such a level, the energy,
I do what I can, which for me, is not bad at all.
But honestly, I've all but given up on hoping that I'm ever gonna
be this great big whoopedoo star I once thought I was gonna be.
Reality won the argument.
There's a stinger of a songtitle. Ouch.
I've experienced pavement winning the argument,
that's almost a great similarity.
I stopped drinking for this reason.
No argument, pavement wins.
Television, yeah. Best bet for a young pretty young lady
who does have real natural talent.
That, and a whole lot of savvy, and caution, and youthful energy and daring,
and resolve, to never quit.
Because if it is the thing you love, music,
well you kinda have to keep doing it, like there's no choice,
but you do have to stay alive in order to continue chasing the dream, Dear.
|
|
|
6/18/2016 12:21:43 PM
Goodness that was long. Sorry.
|
|
Two Silo Complex
|
6/18/2016 12:36:07 PM
ALJ makes a good point.
I used audacity at one point and I made some recordings with it. Another pretty good cheap software is reaper its very similar to pro-tools but the plug ins that come with it are not as good pro-tools but much cheaper.
With reaper you can buy any RTAS, VST plugin and make very good productions.
This is kind of alluding to the point Scott made when you record it yourself you can do it on your schedule and do 100 takes until your happy with it. In studio you pay be the hour so you need to be well rehearsed and hope you get most of it in a few takes with minimal overdubs.
Two Silo Complex,
Ken
|
|
Bob Elliott
|
6/18/2016 5:00:26 PM
People right here would probably fire up quality demos for you for free. They get a kick out of it.
|
|
The Rhythm Kings
|
6/19/2016 6:17:55 AM
Francesca,
Bob Elliott Has got it right I believe. You are young and talented. Grab onto every opportunity. Learn from me. I took 30 years off from music. I'll never get that back. I got a "real job" selling Budweiser. Anyway, its all about what you feel. I've learned not to chase it. Let it come to you. Build relationships with other performers and industry peeps. Business is all about networking. And it is a business. All biz I is relationships. Bottom line.run with it. If You think a demo is worth it do it. Don't live with the regret. Like I have. Go get em'
Peace, Bruce
|
|
The Rhythm Kings
|
6/19/2016 3:35:40 PM
P.S. my studio is open to you. Free of charge.
|
|
Stoneman
|
6/20/2016 9:20:26 AM
It is the virstile artist that reaps the financial benfits these days. You have to not only be virsatile but crafty and persistent. Thre are many ways to make money in the music industry. Most of them have to do with applying your skill set to monetizing your art. For insance, You play piano and sing. You can give piano lessons and vocal coach. You can find clients by going to your local college and visiting their music department. Put you nanmme on the bulletin board. That is also a good way to get a cheap video made. Go to the film departemnt and offer your services to the budding film directors to make a music video. I have also made money by creating personalized music for special occasions. One guy needed a song for his daughters college graduation party. So I wrote this song that he paid me to write and she loved it. I only leased the song to him so i still own the rights. Gigs are another source of monetization. Finding gigs can be complicated and frustrating but it is just like looking for s job. You have to get out there and search. I have made a considerable amount of money from my CD sales. But nothing worth talking about. I ave made more money and equipment by competing and winning in international songwriting contests. That has been a constant source of income and prestige for me. But you must trust that your music is good enough to compete. In my opinion, it is good enough to win. But my opinion doesn't count. The opinions of the judges are what counts. You are talented, pretty, intelligent and dedicated to your music. There is no doubt in my mind that you will find a way to monetize your music. Just keep working at it and you will get there.
|
|
The Jay Dyall Project
|
6/20/2016 9:29:06 AM
Stoneman makes an excellent point about colleges and universities. Aside from A/V department and Music department, you can also inquire at Film departments at various locales. There are many Independent Films being made and you can provide songs for their projects! You can decide on the amount you'd charge based on their budget but retain the rights and make sure the contract states you will receive royalties/residuals should the film make money ( and as mentioned above, Lease the songs but keep the rights). If their film is a success to any extent, you will make some money, especially if they release and sell a soundtrack of film. And your name will be out there too! Worth considering it!
|
|
Donna Devine
|
6/21/2016 12:42:18 PM
---- Updated 6/21/2016 12:45:21 PM
Excellent advice/comments from everyone.
Francesca, you might also want to look at joining a handful of good music licensing sites. HitLicense.com, for instance, posts ongoing placement opportunities, mainly for film/tv and advertising. The rates vary, but are often quite high. Whenever an opportunity is posted, it includes examples of what kind of music/song is required. The songs chosen are also posted so that you can see what sort of pieces are being selected.
Another one to look at is http://makin-trax.co.uk.
My own ‘wins’ have been meagre – but at my stage in life I’m not trying to ‘break into’ anything (-: – though I did manage to license a song for an episode in a US TV series a few years back. My ’15 minutes of fame’. LOL I still get a tiny royalty payment every now and then via my PRO.
Two years ago, my co-writer (the composer; I’m the lyricist/sometimes melodist) and I were finalists – with two pieces - in the instrumental category of the SongDoor International Songwriting Competition, and won the popular vote and $500. This year, we won the instrumental category (unfortunately, the prize didn’t include cash).
If you decide to give licensing sites a whirl, you might want to have a look at this place.
http://musiclibraryreport.com
It’ll give you the nitty-gritty on hundreds of agencies: the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Many of the forum posts there are also extremely informative.
|
|
Francesca Tamellini
|
6/21/2016 12:45:46 PM
Thank you all for some great advice.
|
|
Steve April
|
6/21/2016 7:02:56 PM
You may wanna have a look at https://www.patreon.com, best crowd-funding site on the web, they say.
There's also http://www.marinav.com/index.php, check out how a young indie lady artist/musican does this. She's very good, and makes a living at it.
Cheers!!!
|
|
| |
�2015-16 IndieMusicPeople.com All Rights
Reserved
| |
|