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Holo Lukaloa
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8/4/2009 5:01:57 AM
---- Updated 8/4/2009 5:02:54 AM
This is great. Olbermann calls out legislators owned by Insurance Lobbyists in tonight's special comment.
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justjessie
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8/4/2009 11:43:34 PM
Are you serious with this BS? With the knowledge that I may lose some votes for this I will respond... I am a republican and I am not paid off. I enjoy working for my multi-billion dollar company because my benefits are wonderful. I do not want this so called health care reform because I do not want some government committee to decide when or if I am "worthy" enough to get medical treatment. I do not want the government to decide how much equipment my local hospital is allowed to purchase. I do not want to wait in line behind illegal immigrants who don't pay taxes for my medical treatment. I am, quite frankly sir, concerned that this nation has become so ignorant! I am concerned that these people have no idea what is actually in this so called health care bill and are willing to vote yes to it because their socialist president says it's a good idea. No sir! I do not agree! This country already has free health care for those who do not have jobs or are too poor to afford it. I do not think we should give more. This nation has been brainwashed into thinking it is incapable and it is not! We do not need more hand outs to those who choose not to work. Yes, I said "choose"! There are jobs out there for people who don't think they are too good to take a pay cut or work at taco bell. How can you think that you are too good to take a pay cut, but not to good to take MY TAX DOLLARS? Money that I go to work everyday to earn! No sir! I do not agree!
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Holo Lukaloa
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8/5/2009 12:37:12 AM
Nobody said YOU were paid off. Are you a congressman? Of course not. Do you make over 250 grand a year? If not, you're not going to pay more taxes for health care.
You've obviously been brainwashed by your fellow idiot Republicans who will say and do anything to keep Obama from succeeding in his programs that a majority of Americans want. Nothing is going to change about your own plan. You have no tolerance about this issue because you actually have health care and have absolutely no thought about the millions who can't afford it which include a whole lot of working people, genius.
I thought it was really funny when that congressman from New York proposed a bill cutting all medicare since it's a government run health care plan just to show that none of the Repubs would vote against it.
Anybody who thinks Obama is a socialist is an idiot. Sorry. Go actually learn about what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
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justjessie
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8/5/2009 12:59:15 AM
Watch the feed again buddy, he said, "any republican". Have you read the bill? Do you understand that EVERY working AMERICAN is going to be paying for this? And yes, I do have health care coverage. Do you know why??? Because I have a JOB!!! And oh, because I work for one of those terrible BIG BUSINESSES! Let me ask you this of those "terrible big businesses", how many of them do you know of that have no employees? NONE! Guess what! They employ hundreds of thousands of people, they pay for insurance for hundreds of thousands of people, they match 401K's for HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE! I know, I must not understand because I've been brainwashed... Let me ask you, why do you think that because you exist, I owe you health insurance. Why should your health insurance come out of my pocket? Why should I, a PRODUCTIVE member of society have to pay for YOUR health insurance? Did you do something for me? So, I should pay for my own personal insurance and yours too? This is what you TRULY believe? That I OWE you and thousands of other unemployed people in this united states? No! I do not owe you, I do not owe anyone but my children. You have to WORK to have things in this life, you absolutely should not be GIVEN anything simply because you exist. I owe you nothing as I owe no other cry baby anything! If you work for a living, you will have everything you need. Not everything you want!
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LyinDan
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8/5/2009 1:30:08 AM
Ah! This board now has a Van. Excellent!
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Social Spit
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8/5/2009 1:57:07 AM
---- Updated 8/5/2009 1:59:40 AM
Dan maybe this is the same person who Spambombed that thread over at arebeebee? You know the Siouxie Sioux clone,. except that Siouxie Sioux is actually coos and would never SPOUT republicanisms?
anyway:
You've obviously been brainwashed by your fellow idiot Republicans who will say and do anything to keep Obama from succeeding in his programs that a majority of Americans want.
YAH, that's absolutely RIGHT. The MAJORITY of AMERICANS WANT HEALTH CARE.
If you work for Standard Oil (did I hit it on the head?) good for you, but let US get OUR Health care - By Shutting Up and letting the health care plans that WE want PASS CONGRESS. EH?
"WE" being 95% of ALL Americans and not lust the Limbaugh-LoudMouths
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LyindanPersonal
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8/5/2009 1:59:49 AM
Nah, Jessie is splainin herself. It would be good to just answer point by point. She's a reasonable person.
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justjessie
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8/5/2009 2:12:35 AM
No, I do not work for "big oil", I am a shipping clerk, I make $27,605 per year, to the dollar. As you can see, I am not making a killing and I still believe that nothing should be given away for free. I still believe that I do not owe anybody but the ones I brought into this world. I believe that you get what you work for and that is all. You get no free ride because you exist. This country already has a program in place for those who don't have medical insurance. There is free medical care for those who have NO income, there is discounted insurance for those who have some income but not enough to have private insurance and who do you suppose pays the difference? The tax payer, that's who. That terrible multi-billion dollar company that I work for makes sure that I pay no more than $180 PER MONTH for my medical, dental, vision and life insurance for myself, my husband and my three children. It also matches 4% of every dime that I put into my 401K. My insurance has been billed over $7000 this year in dental bills alone for my kids... My portion of that was about $500. No, I do not want the government involved in my or my children's health care. Nor do I want to pay for anyone else's health care.
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Holo Lukaloa
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8/5/2009 2:31:42 AM
Jessie I bet you had no issue whatsoever with the government spending trillions of dollars and thousands of lives on a war that was based on lies.
You don't even realize that you too are being cheated by the insurance companies, and your representatives are owned by them, and Big Pharma. Even the stats they use to argue are brought to you by lobbying interests.
You seem to believe your taxes are going to be raised. I am guessing you're not wealthy and if that's true you're mistaken about that, not to mention the other fear mongering claims you're making.
There are many productive members of society who can't afford health care. You seem to have anger towards them.
"If you work for a living, you will have everything you need." Aren't you high and mighty? There are a lot of people working hard in this country who don't get benefits, who would have to spend more than half their takehome pay to have health insurance.
A large majority of Americans want a public health care plan. Are you anti-democracy? :>) Are you one of those people who would go disrupt free speech at a town hall meeting because your corporation told you this is what you should do?
You owe us all not to be a fool.
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justjessie
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8/5/2009 2:43:10 AM
Yes, I do agree with the war. And I bet you did after 9/11. Don't forget where you came from sir, and if you aren't from here, than you should shut the f@#! up... with all do respect... How is it that I am being cheated by the insurance company??? Enlighten me... I do not have anger toward those who can't afford private health insurance, I am simply stating that there is a program for them. It seems to me that you have anger toward those of us who have s@#! and don't want to pay for yours. Get over yourself, we don't owe you. I also don't believe that the government should pay for abortion, I bet that really pis@#! you off. Na na na na na, I don't believe in abortion!
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Holo Lukaloa
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8/5/2009 2:52:14 AM
It doesn't surprise me that you'd want more stupid babies roaming the earth, maybe they'd turn out to be Republicans.
No I was always against the war but you can't hold it against Americans who were lied to about the facts. I bet you think Saddam helped with 911, don't you?
The insurance companies spend over a million dollars a day to lobby and advertise against a public program which will force them to be honest. Of course they're cheating you, too.
America's decisions affect the whole world, it's idiotic for you to imply that people from other countries aren't entitled to an opinion about what America does. You're a fascist too along with your obvious distaste for democracy.
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justjessie
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8/5/2009 3:06:38 AM
---- Updated 8/5/2009 3:11:39 AM
Of course it is terrible for me to think that babies have a right to life. I suppose you also think it's okay to let living, breathing babies die in laundry rooms. You are sick, my friend. The fact is, I believe in wrong and right, I believe in keeping our country safe and my republican friends have made that happen. Yes, what the USA does impacts all of the world and I believe that President Bush did the right thing. I believe that democratic ideology is a sickness. I believe that Obama is the anti-christ and I believe that you sir, are full of s@#%! Good luck to you, with your socialist ideology. When the shi@ hits the fan, remember, I told you so.
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LyindanPersonal
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8/5/2009 3:24:39 AM
OK, maybe not completely reasonable :)
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justjessie
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8/5/2009 3:32:56 AM
Sorry, was totally unaware this site was for dems only. Anyone with balls is welcome to join the fight.
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LyinDan
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8/5/2009 3:36:31 AM
Sorry, Ima flaming lib, I have no balls and don't wanna fight no one.
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justjessie
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8/5/2009 3:39:44 AM
figures.
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LyinDan
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8/5/2009 3:40:39 AM
But...you loved me yesterday...(weeping)
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justjessie
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8/5/2009 3:43:52 AM
You are still funny dear. Your political views however, are flawed. (in my eyes)
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LyinDan
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8/5/2009 3:49:11 AM
---- Updated 8/5/2009 4:06:40 AM
Well, here's the thing...the political views you hold (as extended to all those people who also hold them) are *lalalalalalalala*. And not just me. Prolly several million other people in this country. So, forgive me if I don't agree with them.
Glad you're fixed up, though.
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justjessie
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8/5/2009 3:51:32 AM
There again, remember, I told you so...
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LyinDan
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8/5/2009 3:58:22 AM
I've been a productive worker since the 70's. Haven't had more than 4 days off in a row in over, let's see, well, at least 20 years. See, it's entirely possible to a gainful worker and still get screwed by the current health system in this country. You don't believe that?
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Helen McCall
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8/5/2009 4:01:05 AM
Sure wish I had been online when this discussion was going on.
Perhaps you haven't been watching C-span__Government live for you to see?
Well I have and believe me I don't like one bit what they are trying to do.
I didn't catch the page number but it was in the 400's
The Obamaha government is going to call every person, (65 or older) white,black yellow or green before a special committie to see if they are fit enough to stay alive, if they decide you are not, then brother you are euthinized, by refusing your medications, life support, oxygen, or any surgery that sustains your life if they consider you are not fit to live. I heard him tell a woman 81 years old that and I quote "you should have refused to have a Pace-maker installed and just took Asprin or a pain pill instead" end quote, how cruel can anyone be.? He has no heart.
I don't know how old you are but by your looks you are getting on up there don't
think you will be exempt, cause you won't.
America better wake up before they put us all to sleep.
I for one am tired of hearing about the so called Bush War.
They announced yesterday that there have been more soldiers killed in the last two weeks (since the President sent all those troups to Afiganistan;) than were killed in the whole of the so called Bush War, and they are now removing all the troups from Iran to Afganistan immediately, now you tell me whose war is worse.
My brother fought in World War Two to keep you free and there were over 179 million troups killed in that war, my other brother was in the Korean War, He said the troups were mowed down like flies as they waded to shore.
Watch C-span then come back and blog
One last word
That Health bill is 3,000 pages long, nobody has read it thru not even the ones pushing it. I'm a REPUBLICAN and prod of it. . by the way Clinton said it was a bunch of Hog-Wash.
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LyinDan
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8/5/2009 4:03:40 AM
Y'all are easily convinced to believe what you already believe. I'd suggest you check some other sources.
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justjessie
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8/5/2009 4:15:17 AM
As I would you. "If you want to confuse a democrat, give him the facts."
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justjessie
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8/5/2009 4:30:29 AM
A salute to your brothers Helen, and to those in combat before, during and after them. They are my hero's! Here's to no one forgetting what they fought for....................
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Helen McCall
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8/5/2009 4:36:16 AM
Amen to that
C-Span is the best place to watch your Senators in action in the House and the Senate
This comes from the HORSES mouths
Convinced or not just watch them, it goes all day and replays at night.
Another tid-bit
you won't find the Health-Care bill on line at all, if you want to know what's in it you have to watch the Senators (Democrats and Republicans) read it
There are a lot of Democrats against this bill.
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justjessie
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8/5/2009 4:38:37 AM
Far as I can tell, there are a lot of everybody against it. It seems some of the smarter dems are against it. Obviously they know what is to come.
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justjessie
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8/5/2009 4:51:40 AM
This is what we fight for... Remember... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv4s3fn8jDc
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justjessie
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8/5/2009 5:02:03 AM
Going to bed now. I will check on this argument in the morning... Good luck Helen, although, I would guess that nobody will argue with you and your family who has fought for the rights of even the democrats who despise our views.
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Holo Lukaloa
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8/5/2009 5:50:28 AM
Now we got 2 of them!
How typical Jessie that you think because somebody is debating you logically that this site is against you. No, the facts are against you because you are spouting a bunch of mindless doodoo.
If Bush was "keeping us safe", there wouldn't have been a 911. I reallly hate to tell you this but there were no weapons of mass destruction, no connection between Saddam and Bin Laden, and the torture perpetrated by Dick Cheney was an attempt to force confessions that justified their bogus war.
I'd heard about it but I didn't think I'd ever meet anybody gullible enough to believe the ridiculous story that Obama's health care initiative is a secret conspiracy to kill old people but damn, turns out I was wrong. Watching Republican congressmen tell lies on C-span isn't getting yourself educated.
Stop spreading lies, you fools. Learn to read and write and understand speech.
You need to read this article, Helen, you've been taken for a ride..
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/republicans-lying-to-old_b_247400.html
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Social Spit
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8/5/2009 6:01:46 AM
---- Updated 8/5/2009 6:05:36 AM
Jessie I bet you had no issue whatsoever with the government spending trillions of dollars and thousands of lives on a war that was based on lies.
Holo, she got Problems but not with WASTING all of the money Clinton made for us out of the largest surplus we have ever had in History.
9/11 is one thing - But an INVASION of IRAQ BASED on 9/11 was like a bully beating up YOUR SISTER because he could not get to YOU. It was a chickenshit move, and moreover, it is the PRIMARY REASON we are IN THE SHIT right now with the economy.
Well, we got screwed as a nation BECAUSE we believed REPUKICAN RHETORIC.
And I for one am SICK of it - Not only Limbaugh needs to shut the hell up, but also all of his little FART-CUTTING, SALAMI-BREATHED DITTOHEADS like miss prissyface here, who agrees that the invasion of IRAQ and the amount of money, literally 5 times the amount of money Obama was seeking for his emergency repair work, was some kind of GOOD SPENDITURE?!?!?! Gouda Hell!
IF WE HAD NOT INVADED A COUNTRY THAT HAD NOT INVADED US, we'd be enjoying the GREAT economy we had at the second half of the Clinton Administration. IE, if AL GORE had been PRESIDENT, LIKE WE POPULARLY WANTED!
There are always SHITHEADS that think the US ought to ATOM-BOMB all of them damn commie countries and all the GOOKS and all the CHINEE and all them Neeeegroeees in AfrikKka!
Sheeit, not only has this bitch lost any of MY votes, but she has made me ILL and I will throw projectile VOMIT all over her if I ever see her!
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KrevisRatz
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8/5/2009 5:43:51 PM
---- Updated 8/5/2009 5:59:08 PM
Here's a taste of government run health insurance....
Said individual needs meds for gastrintestional suffered for a few years. Since unable to no longer afford private insurance, is member of state insurance and refused meds because they want an expensive test done! BUT the so-called insurance DOES NOT pay for said test! WTF?
The government is so fucked up now. Why would anyone think they could run an efficient health care program?
I get so tired of the Democrat vs Republican bullshit debates. Forget party affiliation and search the truth...they're all corrupt and they're all looking out for themselves. Why don't they accept the same kind of insurance plans they currently offer their own constituents now?? Not good enough for them? Oh but its good enough for someone else?
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Holo Lukaloa
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8/5/2009 6:27:00 PM
Medicare is government run health care and that's very popular. Not one Republican voted to eliminate it.
The insurance companies are profit crazed, already are in the black so much that they can afford over a million dollars a day in ads and paid lobbyists.
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LyindanPersonal
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8/5/2009 6:38:14 PM
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KrevisRatz
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8/5/2009 7:09:26 PM
Medi - what?? Have you talked to those on Medi...i refuse to write "care".
Its a mess too; doughnut holes, etc. Look it up, talk to some of the folks in it. You don't have a choice really. If you're of age and suppose your ife has a great job with great insurance coverage and you don't want Medi-crap. Well if you think you can sign up any time you feel like it, you best be reading up on it. You have a time limit and if you're not in by then, guess what--you're out. Nice way to run things!!?
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The CODE
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8/5/2009 7:18:31 PM
WOW!
Not read it all but got the gist!
***Maybe this Olberman guy should run for President***
???
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Eric Steffensen
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8/5/2009 10:23:50 PM
Ya know what I'm taking away from this whole thing is that the Obama administration needs to really use this as an opportunity to work on fulfilling one of the central promises of the campaign, which is to fundamentally transform the way that government works.
Special interest groups like the insurance lobby have way too much influence over public policy and we are not going to be able to get ANY REAL reform done until this changes.
Personally I think the public insurance option debate is somewhat of a red herring. Unfortunately the ideological side of this debate has the capacity to prevent the kind of reform that can reduce the rate at which health care costs are increasing, which is one of the major long term threats we face to our economic security.
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LyinDan
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8/5/2009 11:13:09 PM
Omigod, Eric! So you want to kill all those old people, too! Shame on you!
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justjessie
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8/6/2009 12:15:10 AM
Wow, very nice. The flaming libs have no intelligent arguments left and have resorted to personal attack. So because we are republican, we are racist? Hmm, seems to me, that we "white folk" aren't the only republicans. And the name calling, wow, that was just brilliant! Let me know when you have an intelligent argument and I will respond. Fact is, I don't agree with you, you will not change my mind no matter how much it p#$@es you off and I will never change yours.
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LyinDan
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8/6/2009 12:35:38 AM
---- Updated 8/6/2009 12:36:23 AM
I'm just going to assume there's some point to this 'discussion', then.
Here's a view that Holo pointed to, it's a substantial thing to debate. I'd be obliged if you could come up with some refutation other than a Limbaugh rant :)
**********************************************************************
Yes, if you believe what these cranks are selling, the Obama administration is engaged in an elaborate plot to rid the nation of its burdensome population of old people. All this fluff about a public option, all the debate about reducing costs and making health insurance more affordable is merely subterfuge in the White House's scheme to impose a final solution to the nation's obvious elderly problem.
Seriously, this is a legitimate argument being used in mainstream Republican circles right now. This is an idea being circulated by the same party that Max Baucus, Harry Reid, Joe Lieberman, Evan Bayh and Mary Landrieu want to negotiate with and capitulate to, all in the name of their fetishistic obsession with bipartisanship porn.
How many more examples of GOP insanity must we enumerate before the aforementioned Democrats stop taking seriously the nincompoopery on the right? Is there no level of ridiculousness too intolerable before enough is enough? At what point does Harry Reid finally overcome his low-T, call bullshit on these jokers and figuratively pummel their soft skulls using a sledgehammer with the number 60 burnished into the handle? Soon, I hope.
The reality:
House bill that would provide Medicare coverage for an end-of-life consultation once every five years. If a person falls ill with a life-threatening disease, more frequent sessions would be allowed.
Put another way, the bill would actually provide an additional and very optional benefit for senior citizens to consult with their doctors about end-of-life decisions decisions we'll all have to make. It's a consultation which is usually an out of pocket expense for the elderly, but now it'll be covered under Medicare. Again, it's an optional benefit for Medicare recipients to meet with their doctor. I repeat: optional benefit. Optional, as in "choice." Benefit, as in something "good" or "helpful." O-p-t-i-o-n-a-l. B-e-n-e-f-i-t.
Furthermore:
"This measure would not only help people make the best decisions for themselves but also better ensure that their wishes are followed," AARP Executive Vice President John Rother said in a statement. "To suggest otherwise is a gross, and even cruel, distortion especially for any family that has been forced to make the difficult decisions on care for loved ones approaching the end of their lives."
Why do the old-people-haters at the AARP want to kill old people?
Despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, House minority leader John Boehner and most other congressional Republicans are taking this wingnut conspiratorial position outlined by Rush Limbaugh. Because naturally they're a very serious political party so much so that the Blue Dog Democrats want to work with them rather than laughing them off the floor. Oh the relationships $1.3 million-a-day in healthcare industry lobbying can buy.
You know what this is? The Republicans are trying to trick senior citizens into buying Old Glory Robot Insurance.
********************************************************************************
Somewhere along the line, we can talk about whether you literally believe President Obama is the Anti-Christ, too.
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justjessie
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8/6/2009 1:19:32 AM
lmao! Seriously? No, I do not believe that Obama is conspiring to kill all of the elderly. Even though I don't share his views, I don't believe he wants to kill people for the sake of killing them. However, I do believe that under his health care plan, those who have lived to their life expectancy will be considered less of a priority for medical procedures. I believe that abortion will become common place and I am personally not okay with that. Here's what you need to understand. There are extremists on both sides of the political fence who say sh#$ just to get a rise out of the other side. I believe in what is morally right and wrong. I believe that Obama does not share those same views. I believe that his support of abortion is terrible. I believe that killing a killer is okay and killing a baby is unacceptable. As for Obama being the anti-christ... If he's not, my guess is that the anti-christ will be real similar.
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Bryon Tosoff
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8/6/2009 1:26:20 AM
Come to Canada eh
hahaha
good luck...this is going to be a bona contention for so many stateside, i just hope people can come to terms with it in whatever design it ends up in, everybody deserves to have health insurance and coverage......we should take care of our fellow man , but that is just me...some just dont give a crap down there in the USA and it is just unfortunate this attitude is so prevalent........show some mercy eh
best to you all.hope it works
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justjessie
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8/6/2009 1:38:27 AM
Hello? Please read the above where I mention the fact that there is a program for those who don't have a job to get insurance for FREE, there is a program for those who don't make enough to purchase private insurance. OR, they could shop for more affordable private insurance. Do you all not see that there are options out there? More of the democratic government trying to convince the people that they CAN'T DO ANYTHING without the government intervening. Whatever issues you have in life that make it difficult are yours and yours alone. Not mine. You have the ability to choose to make your life better or not. You can all sit with your hands out and wait for the government to come with a hand out, or you can get up, dust yourself off and attempt to do something for yourself.
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Bryon Tosoff
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8/6/2009 1:46:29 AM
---- Updated 8/6/2009 1:47:05 AM
Hello back at you justjessie, Listen up, All I said I just hope it gets resolved and it does not get into bitter fight from all sides. I think Obama will handle it just fine. the man is a real diplomat and will negotiate to give all involved a fair shake... do you know how many Americans are losing their health care benefits daily..through no fault of their own...so your call to have people get up off their hands is a bit condescending and judgmental
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justjessie
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8/6/2009 2:05:57 AM
Unbelievable! You listen to what you want to... I understand that there are circumstances where people may need to get help. AND THERE IS A PROGRAM FOR THAT. IT'S CALLED WELFARE AND IT IS ALREADY IN EFFECT. Pay attention! I have posted it more than once.
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Holo Lukaloa
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8/6/2009 3:23:52 AM
You don't know what you're talking about and you're too ignorant to educate yourself. I hope you lose your corporate plan, then you'll understand.
You also don't realize that medicare is government run and yes I believe any buffoon like you who thinks Obama is the anti-christ is more than likely a flaming racist.
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justjessie
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8/6/2009 3:33:25 AM
I said THERE IS A PROGRAM FOR THEM!!! You don't pay attention! You are the one who is ignorant, you have no facts to back you up and you seem to have a complete inability to reason. And please explain to me what racism has to do with not wanting to pay for your health care and thinking that baby killing is immoral?
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Holo Lukaloa
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8/6/2009 4:29:12 AM
Come on, be honest. You know you think Obama might be the anti-christ cause he's a black man. State your true feelings.
You really believe there are programs that allow anyone in the country to get health care if they need it? That's so funny. One of my closest friends needs all kinds of health care, has a cataract in his eye and just found out he has diabetes and the state of NJ put him thru the ringer simply because he's self-employed. They not only wouldn't accept his application but they wouldn't refuse him which was the first step he had to take to get charity care. There are so many people who need to go to the doctor but just cannot afford it. I don't know that many people where I live now but I still know 5 or 6 families in this predicament. You are completely delusional and the most pathetic part is that you actually come on here demeaning nice people who are let down by a ridiculous health care system where doctors routinely charge 500 an hour for basic visits.
It's also downright retarded to bring abortion into this discussion.
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Eric Steffensen
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8/6/2009 5:33:07 AM
Um, I don't want to kill anybody :)
But since the topic has changed from the public insurance option suggested in the current reform to Medicare lets not forget that the Medicare trust fund is projected to go bankrupt in 2018. If we wait to address the rising costs of healthcare now because of partisan bickering and wedge issues, then we'll be left with even tougher choices in the future (ie raise taxes, further gut Medicare benefits, or expand the total joke known as Medicare Advantage) than we're stuck with now.
We need real reform and we need it now and we need to figure out how we're going to pay for it. All I'm suggesting is that maybe it's best to not try to tackle the whole thing in one shot...
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Bryon Tosoff
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8/6/2009 6:00:41 AM
---- Updated 8/6/2009 6:02:07 AM
The thing is this, we dont want to get personal here, and attack the person,.and also stick to the issues and also not to deviate away from the subject matter which is all about health care and what changes need to be implemented. This is not about abortion or the so called inflammatory statement jessie made about Obama being the anti-christ which is way off the wall imo...there is just no excuse for saying that at all
I think what goes on here sometimes is people get all bent out of shape and let their emotions get in the way.
I think Holo brought up a really important subject that needs to be addressed, but it should be done in a respectful way, now that being said, I have had my disagreements in the past with Holo, but I have to say, he seems to bring about some of the better subjects outside of the music thing. so more power to him and I think Jessie you need to cool your jets, just a little and try to look at things from a different perspective, rather then thinking your way is the right way....that being said, I still like your music and no matter what you say here, that does not change my mind about your songs, even though I dont like some aspects of your attitude and what you laid down on this blog , I think that anti christ thing was totally uncalled for
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justjessie
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8/6/2009 3:49:33 PM
---- Updated 8/6/2009 4:21:05 PM
Funny how you all see my comments as inflamatory and disrespectful. I believe it was me who has been personally attacked here. I have been called a racist and a bitch. Funny how you only remember me being disrespectful. Let me ask you Holo, your friend who is self employed... Why does he not get private insurance? If he shops for it he may find that it's affordable. Hmm, maybe the problem is that he didn't think insurance was important until he was sick and now is all up in arms because he has no income. Well, if is making no money than he is not self emplayed and therefore able to collect benefits.
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LyinDan
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8/6/2009 4:48:23 PM
I'm not gonna cut/paste the whole thang, but there's some thoughtful exposition here:
New York Times
and here:
Economix
about the costs of health care, both in general and as individuals. Be sure to read the comments on the second article.
"I used the ratio of median income to average income and applied it to average cost of health care. This ratio is about .75, which is how an average cost of $20,000 became a cost of $15,000 for the typical family."
"add this to your list of facts:
50 percent of American families earn less than $15,000 per year income.
75 percent earn less than $50,0000 per year income.
the Average household income is $36,000."
This is what health care is really costing today in the U.S. Parts of this are hidden costs. People who have good employer-sponsored care (and they are a small portion of the U.S. populace) should feel very lucky to have it, but if things were righted, they would actually be making considerably more in take home disposable income, as well as getting the proper care they need.
As for medical care for the poor and programs for such, they are highly variable from state to state, even county to county. It's very easy to come up with horror stories concerning this, I'll spell a few out if you don't want to research.
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8/6/2009 6:05:29 PM
---- Updated 8/6/2009 6:07:50 PM
Holo is a race baiter supreme!
I can't even come to this board the guy makes me sick to my motherf* stomach. - the way he talks to people that disagree with him... I don't know if people have gotten used to this, and have given up challenging him on the manner in which he talks to people, but I get ulcers being anywhere near the arrogant, condescending, race baiting douchebag.
A slice of holo in this thread alone
Holo says
Anybody who thinks Obama is a socialist is an idiot. Sorry. Go actually learn about what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
You owe us all not to be a fool.
You don't know what you're talking about and you're too ignorant to educate yourself.
I believe any buffoon like you who thinks Obama is the anti-christ is more than likely a flaming racist.
Come on, be honest. You know you think Obama might be the anti-christ cause he's a black man. State your true feelings.
Watch for this post to get deleted by Holo.
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justjessie
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8/6/2009 6:12:43 PM
Okay, just for kicks I went health insurance shopping and this is what I came up with. This is actally not that bad. It is about what I pay for my car insurance per month.
This is from Anthem. It is a deductable of $2000, it is 70/30 and office visits are $30. The cost for this insurance is $117 per month.
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LyinDan
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8/6/2009 6:16:55 PM
Link?
Is it similar to your employer-sponsored package?
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justjessie
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8/6/2009 6:30:59 PM
Yes it is. And mind you I included that I was a smoker and I pay a little more for my employer-sponsored package so that my co-pay and deductible are smaller.
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LyinDan
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8/6/2009 6:32:47 PM
Link to their terms? :)
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Holo Lukaloa
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8/6/2009 6:39:28 PM
That's funny. I just went to Anthem and entered my friends family data into their calculator and it said the plans start at 775 a month.
Saphire, you say you can't stand to see my posts? Let's see, when was the last time I saw you posting here? Oh that's right, the last time you were stalking me. Easily 3/4ths of the posts you've ever made on this pipeline were ones attacking me. You are an obsessed troll. Live with that.
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justjessie
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8/6/2009 6:41:03 PM
:) Not gonna do all of the work for you... Google search "private health insurance quote", that's what I did. I promise it isn't difficult.
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Holo Lukaloa
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8/6/2009 6:48:46 PM
I googled Anthem, went there, filled out the form, and the number it kicked out seems to indicate that you fudged your data, Jessie. 775 for a family of 4 per month is not affordable for many households.
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justjessie
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8/6/2009 7:05:03 PM
lol, of course, I must be lying... I am after all, a republican. Why don't you try to google what I suggested. Give me a minute and I'll find the exact site.
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justjessie
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8/6/2009 7:06:54 PM
okay, it's heathinsurancefinders.com Check it out. FYI, the quote I got was just for me.
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LyinDan
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8/6/2009 7:10:08 PM
---- Updated 8/6/2009 7:14:53 PM
Anthem is regional, can't get it here. But a similar plan covering family of 4 here with a $5000 deductible (per person) is $826/mo. That's a PPO, so choose care in network (what was that fear of not being able to keep your doctor?). Like I say, varies widely across the country. Try punching in some #'s for other areas. Anyhow, at a $5000 deductible, even if you can afford it, you have to be really screwed up for this kind of policy to make sense. And suppose you have some pre-existing condition they don't like - you'll likely be refused coverage period.
Oh, yeah, and these online things are just estimates to hook you in, really. You'll find that the bottom line once all the paperwork is done is higher, and the exclusions are greater. Few people are gonna buy insurance with very high deductibles - even $2000. Plans with lower deductibles (read, plans that make some kind of sense) are much higher.
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justjessie
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8/6/2009 7:40:16 PM
I couldn't get a rate over 350 per month using a family of 5, you all must be in extemely poor health. Guess I'm just lucky.
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Holo Lukaloa
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8/6/2009 8:02:44 PM
No you're just in complete denial because you believe anything Rush Limbaugh says.
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Eric Steffensen
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8/6/2009 8:03:24 PM
Since health insurance is regulated by the states, the rates vary from state to state...there's also rate differences based on age, since the rates are based on a morbidity risk table. When I searched ,the difference for a family of four with healthy non-smoker parents in their mid thirties versus having both parents in their mid fourties was about $100 per month for the best plan that didn't have a sky high deductible.
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justjessie
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8/6/2009 8:33:56 PM
I think I know what lyindan and holo did wrong.... Okay, go back to the rate quote and if you look at the bottom of the page in the far right corner, it says, click here if you are a republican. Check the box, that's how you get the discounted rate.
HAHAHAHAHA!
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SqurlyMurly
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8/6/2009 8:54:45 PM
don't worry about the name-calling, Jess. Holo has what he considers his "ace-in-the-hole", and that is to make accusations of racism due to our black president.
In fact, it is probably he that is racist, given that he accuses anyone who disagrees with Obama's plans of racist attiudes.
Or he's just one of the many that feel this world owes them something for nothing.
An interesting read, regardless of belief:
http://blog.flecksoflife.com:80/2009/07/19/the-hc-monstrosity/
see--I'm just as lazy as our politicians!!! ...let someone else read it and post the juicy tidbits!!!!!
and don't forget the "SNITCH" program. good heavens, we can't have those "radical" emails flitting about, can we? No, people might actually wake up. Who doesn't enjoy a good rumor? Shoot, Hollywood does it all the time to increase ratings. Maybe Obama should let it ride.
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LyinDan
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8/6/2009 9:15:00 PM
From here
These are real world figures about what policies people actually buy, but they are year-old figures.
********************************************************************
For the Record: Just what is the average cost of health care insurance?
By Andrew B. Einhorn Oct 16 2008, 09:37 AM
Every Presidential debate annoys me, and not because of the usual banter of who's the better candidate to lead the country, but because at times, each candidate states a "fact" that clearly deviates from the "fact" the other states. In last night's debate, the third and final Presidential debate, the big dispute was over the average cost of health care insurance.
According to Senator Obama, the average cost of health care insurance is $12,000. Senator McCain stated the cost to be $5,800. So who is right and who is wrong?
Unfortunately the answer is: it depends on who you ask. Below, we've highlighted all the data currently available.
1. The Association of Health Insurance Plans, an insurance trade group, conducts a survey of individual policies each year. In December 2007, they issued a report with information about average premiums sorted by age, as well as average premiums by state.
The report states that nationwide, annual premiums averaged $2,613 for single coverage and $5,799 for family plans in the 2006-2007 period. This is where McCain most likely obtained his numbers, though some would argue that information obtained from industry associations is not reliable, given the goals of the association: promoting private insurance plans.
The report goes on to state that for single policies, annual premiums ranged from $1,163 for persons under age 18 to $5,090 for persons aged 60-64. For family policies, premiums ranged from $2,325 for policies covering children under age 18 to $9,201 for families headed by persons aged 60-64.
The limitation of relying on this study is that it is only based on individual policies and does not incorporate the costs of corporate insurance policies.
2. The National Coalition on Health Care, the nation's largest non-profit, non-partisan alliance working to improve America's health care, places the average annual cost that a health insurer charges an employer for a health plan covering a family of four at $12,100 (2007 estimate). This relays the true cost of the insurance to the employer, even though the average cost per employee for family coverage is estimated at $3,300.
The information comes from a 2007 report by the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation which goes on to state that the average annual cost for health care premiums for individuals is $4,500, of which the average person actually pays $694.
A major limitation of this study is that it only addresses employer-sponsored health care plans, leaving out the 40 percent of Americans (U.S. Census Bureau number) not covered by corporate health care plans. But it seems, Senator Obama still used the $12,000 estimate for health care costs, even though that estimate pertains for corporate costs for families of four, not the actual cost felt by employees, and does not account for those without corporate insurance.
3. A third study conducted by Leighton Ku of George Washington University and Matthew Broaddus of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities compares the costs of Medicaid to individual health care plans. The study found that average medical expenditures per person are lower under public programs like Medicaid or the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) than under private insurance.
Specifically, the study places the cost of insuring those on Medicaid at $5,700 versus $7,000 per year for private policies, after adjusting for the poor health of Medicaid recipients on average.
So what can we make of all this?
For one, it's a clear lesson on how to lie with statistics if you're a politician. But to be more academic, the answer is complex.
At a glance, McCain's numbers seem more accurate since they rely on numbers at the individual level. In reality, neither estimate is completely fool proof.
Let's start with the estimate McCain uses - an estimate of the cost of private health insurance for families at the individual level (i.e. no corporate coverage). Unfortunately, unlike corporate health care providers, insurers for individuals have the option of "cherry picking" who they cover. The term "preexisting medical condition" is often used as a means for denying coverage to individuals deemed too risky or too expensive for insurance providers to take on at an individual policy level. As a result, those selected for individual policies tend to have fewer medical problems, which keeps premium costs lower for those individuals and others in the system.
In contrast, corporate health policies must admit all employees into the health care plan. Unlike individual policy plans, corporate plans cannot exclude a person on the basis of a preexisting medical condition or any other risk actor. This raises the cost of medical expenses the insurer ends up paying for those covered under the plan, which in turn raises the costs of the health care premiums for that plan for the employer. Some expenses may be passed to the employee, depending on what percentage of the health insurance premium the employer decides to pay for each employee.
All of this means McCain has chosen to use the least expensive estimates of health care while Obama chose to cite the priciest estimates possible. In reality, the average cost of health would be an average of medicaid/medicare costs, individual policy holders, and corporate health plans weighed by the percentage of enrollees for each plan, 27 percent, 9 percent, and 60 percent, respectively. The remaining percent are covered by military health care (4 percent) or are uninsured (16 percent). (Percentages do not sum to 100 because some people have more than one type of health care coverage.)
In summary, the actual annual cost would likely fall around $9,000-10,000 per year, per family. This means both candidates are using erroneous numbers. Anyone surprised?
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LyinDan
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8/6/2009 9:16:37 PM
Could we try to stay more or less on subject, btw? It makes things more coherent.
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Social Spit
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8/7/2009 5:09:34 AM
Someone a-posted elsewhere:
In the old days, Republicans would just say something like "If Granny wants counseling on end-of-life decisions, she can pay for it herself instead of soaking the American taxpayers!" But today, it's "ZOMG! Don't let the Democrats kill your grandma!" Bringin' the krayzee.
But the Re-PUKE-icans ain't sayin a-anythin' NEW, they's just a-spewin a brand new, Salami-Eatin ButtRush LimbergerBaugh-ism.
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Social Spit
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8/7/2009 5:39:58 AM
"Medicare is government run health care and that's very popular. Not one Republican voted to eliminate it."
-On the other hand, they are the ones who are threatening to pull the plug on it most.
You know what Medicare PART D is?
NOBODY was makin Money out of the MEDICAID SYSTEM, who were responsible only to the beneficiaries.
If I needed a medication? All I needed was a pre_scription and I got it, regardless of generics, if my doctor SAID I needed to take it, then I GOT it, and I got EXACTLY what was prescribed.
In 2005, BUTT-BUSH decided, hey, there is a SHITload of MONEY to be tapped here, we'll just give THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR PRESCRIPTION DRUGS to PRIVATE SECTOR Insurance Companies. But the Companies are not RESPONSIBLE to the people who are supposed to benefit from it, they are ONLY responsible to their Boards of Directors, who are fatter than they have ever been.
This way, the Insurance Con-panies, can SOAK the Medicare Beneficiaries. They do it THIS way:
1) The MEDICARE PART D system DOES NOT GIVE FULL COVERAGE to the Beneficiary like the MediCaid system used to. But the PART D "Insurance" is "FREE" to the beneficiaries- But they still get the money EACH STATE used to get for the distribution of medication to those on Medicaid. This effectively cuts the STATE out of the equation.
2) INSURANCE COMPANIES give the Part D Insurances to the beneficiaries, but withhold FULL coverage. However, a "Better COVERAGE PLAN" is available for oh, $60? $75? about $100 extra dollars a month. I know this AS FACT because I had to get the "Extra Coverage" -I am supposed to pay $30 per month - Which I told Blue Cross I totally refused to pay, they still send me bills each month, but seeing as about half of my meds are NOT in their "Formulary" - I refuse to pay for the extra unsur-ance.
But the Insurance Companies are still making money, because, most folks on Part D do not understand, they HAVE to be given coverage, and so they just pay the Xtra charge for "More (But Still, INCOMPLETE) Coverage - so the Insurance companies SINCE 2005 have been RAKING IT IN - At the expense of each state's MediCaid money! And this is part of the reason California is Broke, because since 2005, they have not been getting that Medicaid allotment.
This was ALL BUSH, who did this. There was NO PROBLEM with the Medicaid system at all, everyone who was dependent on it, got everything they needed,
last Month, I had to go for a Colonoscopy. I was prescribed a huge gallon jug of this stuff I had to drink the day before. NOT COVERED, so it looked like was going to have to dig $125 bucks out of my ass, which I do not have. But I raised such hell they finally Authed it.
That is the other thing, most old folks do not understand, that they can get Auth for drugs "not in the formulary" - All you gotta know are all the right phone numbers, but I got all the numbers for all the departments, and when they pull this shit on me, they hear about it until they give me full overage which I am supposed to get!
Now to anybody who has a problem "Paying taxes" for this stuff, first of all, I worked for 4 decades while dumping MY income into that account, second, when YOU need the service, and you yelled your PRISSY-BLONDE-HAIRED-BITCH of a fool head off AGAINST this stuff, if they TAKE IT AWAY and YOU NEED IT you'll damn well start WISHING you were not such a C*** and blowing fart-air up RushButt Limbergerbaugh's SHINEY, REEKING ASS about taking it AWAY.
Damn Dumnb RePUKEICAN Mega-Morons!
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Jesse Adams
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8/8/2009 12:02:15 AM
Pardon me for interrupting, but I wanted to add my little observation.
Republicans seem really paranoid to me. It's oxy-moronic in my eyes that they are mostly holy-rollers and Jesus lovers, yet they've abandoned the "love thy neighbor" notion for a "Hey, fuck you get your own" notion.
Jessie, you said you believe in right and wrong. How is abandoning your fellow Americans in need right? I thought this was supposed to be the UNITED States of America.
Just curious.
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weAponX
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8/9/2009 4:54:36 PM
Thanks, Jesse number 2, I think you nailed it.
When I was in elementary school I had a hard line anti-commie teacher who used to teach: "I Got MINE buddy YOU get YOURS" - and "Each Generation Makes It More Difficult for their Children to Get Theirs".
Although I never agreed with his harsh republican stance and his overt support of the Vietnam War bothered the hell out of not only me, but most of my 6th Grade Class - He was correct, in that "Each Generation Makes it More Difficult".
One wonders if Jesse number 1 has any children and if she would desire that these potential children ought to have access to preventative and even intensive medicine?
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justjessie
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8/9/2009 9:44:48 PM
Yes dear, I have five children who I teach that if they want things in this life they have to work for them. I pride my children for working hard. I do not want my children to think that they are owed by anyone for anything. My job as a parent is to teach them to be responsible, productive members of society. My children do have access to medical care because I provide it for them. That is my job as a parent right? I make sure MY kids have what they need. And... if there ever was a point at which I lost my job and couldn't provide it for them, there is a program that would take care of it for me TEMPORARILY, until I could find employment. Do you understand that there is a program for instances such as that already??? When they are out of school I would hope that they would be responsible enough to get their own medical coverage.
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Holo Lukaloa
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8/11/2009 7:53:08 AM
You're really holier than thou, Jessie. If you go to church, it isn't teaching you the right lessons. There are a whole lot of people WITH jobs who can't afford healthcare.
You need to go here and read the truth about the issues.
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Holo Lukaloa
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8/11/2009 10:06:32 AM
Another even better special comment tonight by Olbermann. Jessie, he even mentions the propaganda paper you got your story from about the lines of the bill you say are going to hurt you.
It's still unreal to me that considering the yearly income you claim to make that your whole focus here is on people trying to take money out of your pocket which won't even happen. We all paid for the Iraq war though, in lives and money that could've been used for something needed like healthcare.
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never never band
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8/11/2009 11:22:15 AM
The brilliance of the Republican party is that they have mastered using snarl words like Socialism, and Fascism to get their base to vote against their own best interest.
and it's all done by fat cats who will never have to worry about the simple things that haunt the majority of us.
The Brillliance of the Democrats is that they convince us that they have our best interest at heart and then come to us hat in hand saying "we tried, we just couldn't get it done".
I teach my kids to work hard and be honest, that's not a republican high ground, they just like to claim that territory despite the fact that thier party is rife with dishonesty and thievery. Democrats in the legislative branch can be just as bad, they are all playing with our heads while we lose our pensions, our homes, our self worth, our manufacturing base, really we are losing everything that we were supposed to stand for.
By the way, I actually am a Socialist so if you want to talk about that I at least know the meaning of the word, but you dont really want to talk about that.....
Not a Hugo Chavez socialist, Not a Castro socialist, I'm talking about Democratic Socialism, the idea that our government should really and actually be OUR GOVERNMENT and the idea that "we the people" should be in charge of our national resources.
Of course I'm in the extreem minority, and because I love democracy I don't actually believe that my ideas should prevail. But that doesn'tkeep me from wishing it.
You get that dont you?
If you really love Democracy than you have to love it when your minorty ideas fail to prevail! It's your job to convince and pursuade until your ideas capture the popular imagination, not to try to trick people or use shenanigans to put ideas that discriminate against the majority into law.
I get ill when I hear some of you claim to be "christians"
I wish all these bible thumpers would read the sermon on the mount , and for once at least pretend like they actually believe it.
But really, I wish we could put all such childishness behind and get it through our heads that THERE PROBABLY IS NO GOD, it's up to us to define and pursue goodness and compassion. We need to help each other get through this thing.
If we cant help each other, all is lost.
If we keep letting these bloated fat cat legislators and talking heads define the issues for us and laugh all the way to the bank while we tear each other apart, then maybe this planet is better off without us anyway.....
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justjessie
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8/12/2009 3:29:40 AM
Life's tough, quit crying.
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never never band
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8/12/2009 4:45:52 AM
my, what a pleasent a reasonable woman, do you speak that way to strangers often?
you're credit to your party and your religion.
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Bryon Tosoff
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8/12/2009 4:58:50 AM
---- Updated 8/12/2009 5:02:52 AM
What can you say to that Frater...oh yeah you just said it...oh well that is the way it is
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Holo Lukaloa
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8/12/2009 5:32:00 AM
Yes she's so reasonable she thinks Obama may be the antichrist!
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weAponX
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8/12/2009 5:17:36 PM
Yah, she exudes this "Love" that Xtianity so often claims to be the basis of their Faith.
Sorry, Jesse, but if your Nazi take on Xtianity is the "real world" - Then I'll take my delisions of a Faith that actually DOES have its basis on Love- The act of it and the spreading and speaking of it.
Your example of Faith is one that even I, as a Christian, tell people to avoid.
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